question

@Alexandra firstly thank you for your responce. Yes the system is grid tired and I have the ability to sell/export surplus to the grid, the PV is an AC system, I have batteries hence the ESS assistant as far as I am aware that’s the only thing used to limit grid usage and utilities the batteries, PV is grid tired but on AC 1 out so critical output side, grid down PV still has power as far as I am aware I could be wrong and I’m happy too be wrong if not just to end this ongoing saga.

But the only way to stop the PV overcharging the system in a grid down state is via PV assistant frequency shift so it can’t overcharge the batteries or cause the whole system to go down as the BMS goes into overload protection.

The Quattro is wired and has exactly the same assistants on it as the multiplus did and can zero my smart meter out at -10 where as I couldn't even zero out the multiplus 2 at -50 grid setpoint, but the Quattro is not displaying any issues re balancing the grid.

The multiplus 2 wasn’t balancing the grid day or night so no PV at night. I’m at a loss I’m frustrated I’ve brought up the system not balancing before and that’s when people started mentioning the CT works better I got a Victron CT which makes no difference and the only thing that is different is the loan unit settings are the same, so forgive me for the post and how it sounds I’m just at the end of my tether and how a tatty loan unit works when my pristine unit won’t. Thanks for your reply, you guys and girls have more knowledge with Victron I’m happy to admit and that’s why I joined the forum and I’d love to continue and offer others help as best as I can but what’s been happening is just getting me more and more disheartened no offence intended just at whitts end!

@Alexandra oh I thought I had missed something, I used the PV assistant for frequency shifting as it allows you to alter it for systems that are not Fronius type integration, Sorry apologises im being lazy and it is a Quattro 2 5000 so exactly the same just two grid inputs and no input for CT hence back to the ET112.

The shop didn’t have a loan multiplus 2 unit at the time this was the nearest to it, had this displayed the same as the multiplus 2 then I would have had to look more at the sight but the fact it was changed and as soon as the assistants where fired up it started to balance the grid in seconds and exported more in less than half a day to keep import at zero than the multiplus 2 has done in a whole day. Both units where running on the latest firmware I had to update my multiplus 2, I also had to update the Quattro 2 as it came in three phase setup that did fox me I’m not going to lie. But I went back through everything especially when I updated with VRM on the phone and saved the file in icloud and it said it wasn’t the same I had to do it all again from scratch and I had the distro on the phone when I was doing it.

Theres nothing else I can do, the distro is at a loss and no one can explain how the exact same setting and environment is not affecting the Quattro 2. This distro is just saying Victron repair is saying follow Victron guidance to ESS, I bought the system to save money default is 50watts draw from the grid if I’m not mistaken to me this isn’t acceptable and I’ve set the multiplus 2 to -20 which still can’t achieve zero on the IHD smart meter. Which the Quattro 2 does at -10 pushing back on the grid bubble so I’m not using the grid, grid set point can’t be an option and then wrong at the sametime. Who knows if this is it?

All Victron repair say is follow Victron ESS, they are not interested in the VRM data that they have or the Octopus screen shot of when the unit was swapped over that very same day or the fact that the loan unit isn’t doing the samething, I’m not making it up the distro isn’t the data shows it. I didn’t think I would get this much static from Victron when the distro said yes unit looks faulty and the loan unit goes to show it’s not the site or the settings.

This whole thing has me twisted, but I’ll always say and this much is true the test of a good company is how they deal with problems, that’s what I thought I invested in and the very active community over another brand.

I’m happy to be wrong and shove humble pie in my mouth but the VRM data Octopus energy data, what I can see on the IHD, the distro and the loan unit it can’t possibly boil down to ESS when both are setup the same apart from the difference in grid setpoint. Hope this isn’t coming over as a pop I’m just at the end of my rope.

hi daza,

i think the ess and pv assistant might be the problem, i have made a screenshot from ve configure
when setting up the ess assistant and you dont need the pv assistant (see note in screenschot)

im using a similar setup in the netherlands and also only use the ess assistant

Guys thank you @duivert are you wired to AC 1 out and not a solar system that integrates with Victron? So it will do it just on ESS ok it appears this could be it but for the life of me can’t see why the Quattro isn’t doing it, I’ll give the Distro a call tomorrow and get my unit back and try it if it is I’ll delete this post or just change the title and shove humble pie in my mouth in the corner on my own. Thank you gents and ladies! Much appreciated

Thanks @Matthias Lange - DE so I am getting ESS confused with PV assistant then. So more points to config error on my part, which is a surprise as the distro said install PV assistant after the ESS, will defo call the distro and get the unit back to try this out. Again thank you all that have inputted.

@Matthias Lange - DE @Alexandra Right Back to this phantom draw 6 month old unit first posted here https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/249084/phantom-draw-from-multiplus-2.html which was help full with and said it could be a site issue which it could have but the below goes to confirm it’s not, It appears that i haven't enabled both the PV assistant and the ESS assistant so not a config issue But what i'm left with is the repair centre saying use the standard ESS setting but as far as i am aware the pylontech batteries given an alarm if not set to the spec that victron specify for the batteries exactly how ive setup the batteries, This differs from the stock ESS see link below for US5000 setup so not sure what settings they want me to comply with as there is no PV assistant just the ESS.

So now i'm being told that there is nothing the shop can do in regards to this as Victron are not going to repair or do anything with the unit and I'm going to be getting it back even though the shop has benched the unit without a load and the unit draws 200Watts with nothing connected according to the tech at the shop.

So i have demonstrated it not working at my house the shop has been over the VRM and said yes its not working properly draws about 500Watts at points. The repair centre is saying its fine sent it back to the shop they have bench tested it with no load and said its still not right it draws 200Watts with no assistants loaded and nothing on the output of the Unit, Now i'm being told there is nothing the shop can do even though they tested it and know its faulty they have to send it to me as Victron repair centre says no So i'm going to get a faulty unit back which isn't even a year old. No wonder i couldn't get my smart meter to read zero if its pulling 200Watts from the grid all by itself Without a load so i can only assume when a load is connected the draw from the unit is a lot higher which rings true with what the shop picked up on the VRM re the 500watts

PS Old beat up Quattro 2 loan unit from the shop is working fine go figure!?

I'm soo angry, feed up, frustrated with this whole saga from a 6 month old unit.

Ive always had a view that the measure of a company isn’t how well they deal with things that go right but how they deal with it when it goes wrong!

Apologies if this comes over bluntly i'm at breaking point and having my post altered doesn’t help that.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom

Charger tab

Note: make sure to double check the float voltage after completing Assistants, and if necessary set it back to 51.0 V.

Note For off-grid use: ignore the 'bms assistant required' warning.

5.3 Inverter Settings

In the Inverter tab of VEConfigure

* The pre-alarm setting is dependant on your preference and on site specific requirements. You may wish for this to be activated earlier in an off grid situation to allow time to start a backup generator.

ESS System Settings

If you are using the battery as part of a grid connected ESS system, please review the ESS Quickstart guide and Design and Installation Manual.

The settings that are specific to the Pylontech battery in the VEConfigure ESS Assistant are below:

Select the externally managed Lithium battery option

@Alexandra thanks I’ve gone through my dealer this is what is frustrating.
My dealer was the first option, but as we both have seen the multi miss behave and been told it’s ESS settings, the dealer bench tested it and seeing an issue without any settings enabled or load on the unit. Repair centre saying no issues and to return the unit to me who else can i turn to it seems all avenues are blocked? I’ll have a look at the link but ultimately boils down to the repair centre who are saying it’s fine even though me and the dealer are miles apart and both having issues with excess current draw.

I spent a lot of money and even more time on it as a source of pride that anyone that looked at it would be impressed with the setup now I’m some what dulled.

@Craig Chamberlain Cheers mate, I’m not sure if a clamp meter is being used by the dealer all I’ve been told is they have seen it still drawing 200watts, so it’s not me testing it, yes manual says use batteries to power the unit I assume it’s powered but is still drawing the 200watts from the grid that’s what I got from the dealer.

i haven’t got the unit back I’m just using the old Quattro 2 that they gave me as an interim. Yes there was confusion mainly by me going through the ESS settings and then thinking it was the PV assistant so apologies for that. Yeah I had the dealer look over the VRM and access the Cerbo GX remotely I can’t get the config file for the multiplus as we wiped it when I was fault finding with them on the phone and the latest firmware was put on it the only one I have is the Quattro one which is behaving fine but I’m in a meeting all day via teams so can’t boot into boot camp to get the files.

The dealer has been brilliant and still has the unit and has continued to push back but I think they are getting to their end of there resolve with the unit, I’ve reached out to someone at Victron as a last hail, Mary! But yeah I can 100% send the file to you and appreciate your prospective regarding this.

Wow didn’t think this topic would be still be on going but it is. No problems with the config I hold my hands up and say i was confused thinking that in ESS when it was asking the PV stuff I thought that it was PV assistant. So no, no Wrong settings on my part.

Update from Distro yes we are still seeing current draw over the units 18watts with no load. My energy supplier sees the excess draw as the unit fails to balance the grid due to this. Victrons answer to this is it needs to be on an Oscilloscope to accurately measure that it’s drawing power so not sure if I should ask my energy supplier to use one in order to bill me. For a company that prided its self on warranty and its products Victron is just looking like any other company @mvader (Victron Energy) @Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) @Alexandra its at this point when I start regretting ever going with a Victron system at the moment with this going on, right now my Distro/Victron you’ve had my system longer than I have even owned it!

VRM also shows that the Multiplus 2 is having a hard time at balancing the grid both Multi and the Qauttro 2 on the same settings grid set point, loads same the used wattage from the grid very different. Quattro 2 in green and Multiplus 2 in red

Hi @Daza

Take a look at this: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/302121/how-to-prevent-multirrs-from-getting-100wfluctuati.html

It may get you some insights about those variations and the fact that they depends on how clear is the waveform from your supplier (Octopus).

Alex

@Alex Pescaru firstly thank you for your reply but its the national grid that do that. I’ve got two devices near Identical apart from the addition input. My energy provider (Octopus) is just reading the data from the approved metering device (smartmeter) which could never register zero or show export on the in home display until the loan unit went in. Also doesn’t explain why I would have 1400watts of solar and a 700watt load and still draw 50odd watts from the grid with batteries at 90%, My distro has the unit still and said it’s still drawing more, a similar 50Watts to 80watts no load connected clamp meter tested by distro.
Different location different DNO, different installation setup similar results. So it’s been replicated independently by the distro so not sure why I now need an oscilloscope to cheek that it’s drawing more power Apparently that’s Victrons answer. It’s not a reasonable thing to ask especially when the two devices are exactly the same settings yet behaving very different and also replicated by there distro. @Craig Chamberlain yes it looks as if I will have to go the full course consumer rights act as just looks like ducking responsibility to me, yes I’m still sore about this whole situation and really thought I was in good had with a well established manufacture.

@Craig Chamberlain cheers mate, no the link wire went as soon as I installed the ET112 when I connected that I posted on here that I’m drawing too much and everyone said use a victron CT so I bought one and tried it but it was worse.

I’ve never used the internet CT as Ive got the dryer and washing machine on AC in. No distributor hasn’t been to my house, the distributor is just the distributor I would have loved it to be a simple solution but if it was my site the problem wouldn’t have gone to there site and if it was my site I would still have the problem all be it that the Quattro can only have external shunts as no CT input.

Yes the Distributor technician has said it‘s using more power than it should I got an Area manager from Victron involved and I got asked if I’ve worked out how much extra it’s costing bit hard to work out the cost of the lifetime of a system when tariffs change, I just want a system that works.

I’m currently waiting the distributors response as it’s now with there director.

Yes as a resolution I’ve asked for a new unit as as far as Victron are concerned it needs an oscilloscope to work out if it drawing too much apparently clamp meters are not good enough to show current draw. So now got to see if the distributor changes there mind and decides an oscilloscope is the only way to workout if the unit is drawing too much current.

But I’ve never had to fight as hard with a manufacturer as I have with Victron as it seems like the distributor is reliant on Victron to say yeah there is a fault so that there not out of pocket I hope I’m wrong but the way it’s going. Trading Standards are aware informed by Citizens advice but everyone is on pause at the moment as the distributors response will dictate next steps.

Hi @nickdb i get that set point are not hard and fast hence why I was trying upto -50 as a set point and changing ET112 for and external CT and doesn’t explain why the Quattro can do it and yes there are tolerances in electronics but that’s pretty different as a plus minus tolerance using quality components, whilst I hope that Victron own it last conversation I had with the distributor is that they don’t have an oscilloscope and as far as I’m aware L3 doesn’t have the unit that’s just what they are telling the distributor it needs.

I am supprised that the distributor hasn't yet explained that the power factor of what looks to be a constant/irregular/annoying input/export will be extremely low.

So Victron Tech have told the distro to set grid set point to -200 well it doesn’t draw from the grid I’m told but I wonder how much it’s actually sending back to the grid to achieve that. So -200 watts plus 500watts so 700watts in total this seems to be victrons answer so far, Someone is having a laugh some were! @Craig Chamberlain your thoughts?

Approved 8.9kW Single-Line Diagram.pdf

Final 8.9kW Consumer Unit Layout, House and Boundary Map.pdf

@Craig Chamberlain well the unit is back it lasted about half the day before it started to draw randomly on the AC load side, The only things that AC in can see is the Washing Machine and the Dryer both have been isolated by the RCBO, The EV charger is before all of this and not monitored but i isolated that to by its RCBO.

Im using the victron VM-3P75CT as i did with the Quattro 2 the unit is fluctuating a lot and having difficulties balancing the load especially when appliances are run it starts to inject and AC load on the AC IN of 50 to 60 Watts, When it balances it over shoots 100 odd watts to the grid at time of testing both AC PV inverters have been turned off.

Ive blinded the inverters AC IN to the inverter and it no longer reads what ever load its reading Seems just a theory that its measuring via both the internal CT and the external CT (clarify the Victron VM-3P75CT via the VE BUS) which could explain why the Quttro 2 doesn't do it as it has no internal CT on the AC IN. As an off grid machine it appears to work as you would expect 3700Watts put on it from the kettle and house load and it didn't even flutter add the grid back and it draws from the grid and registers an AC load only things on that side metered, is the washing machine and dryer which had been isolated already. loosing the will to live with this system at the moment both units have the exact settings so I can only draw the multi plus 2 as being at fault unless the settings below are wrong but both have the same setting so doesn’t explain why the Quattro works as should, but the multiplus doesn’t?

@Craig Chamberlain yes for some reason the Multiplus is reading a load on the AC IN this is at random but also when load is applied, I’ve isolated the PV on AC out and everything on AC IN so in essence are not connected so everything should come from the critical loadside it looks like it’s measuring the multiplus power on AC IN as it’s reacting to the draw on the critical load, lol you guys DC system seems more complex to me the PV inverters are just there own entity.

On a good note it’s actually exporting now and zero’ing the meter but the Quattro is definitely more stable and better at balancing I’m running a minus 30 grid set point. Yes both terminators are on the VM3-P75CT could be a reason why it’s behaving a bit better as I never had that when I had the constant import it was just the ET112 but the Quattro had this too and worked fine, its wired direct via the VE.Can

good eye the orange Ethernet cable is for the MK3 which is disconnected from the controller I didn’t want to keep having to undo the panel to program.

Below is a system overview of distribution they are not really how the system is laid out but I’m able to see who and what is drawing power

So I have enough AC solar for the load but the unit imports power it’s started to get worse and the corillation seems to be the AC solar for some reason the multiplus 2 can’t balance it like the Quattro, this is exactly what was happening before.

Why the Quattro doesn’t do it I’m not sure I can only figure it’s the internal CT that the Multi is also reading from which is causing the issues.

Explains why victron said there are no issues with the unit as they don’t have PV well AC PV anyway and distro has another system behaving in a similar manner with AC solar only taken 7months and for me to get the unit back to figure it out. I’m now waiting to see what happens now as just having solar AC on its own would cover those house loads, so I’m drawing from the grid when I shouldn‘t be.

Now that explains why the VRM graph is all over the shop throughout the day.

So apologies regarding the warranty victron title changed to reflect, but the system doesn’t behave like it should with the AC solar the only fix I can see that works right now is the Quattro but having an additional AC in on a unit that I’m never going to use that additional input seems a waste but it actually works.

@Craig Chamberlain Hey Mate never saw your response well we have come to an agreement the distro has stepped up and brought there A Game, so where we are at the moment I've said the best thing is to put everything on critical load and have it registered by one data point ie no grid meter just the multi out logging the load via its own inbuilt current monitor.

Obviously this presented a problem of load that was shedded when i done the wiring by putting the washing machine and dryer on AC in. They are now on critical load well everything is going on critical load bar the EV charger so they have agreed to take back the multi and do a 10,000kVA all on critical load as i don't have room for more than one multi, Quattro 2 only available in 5000 so that's out of the running, other Qauttro's not anti-island unless you buy anti-island device also presents complexity if you need to fault find, other issue if i did have the room it would hing on the hopes that the DNO wouldn't want me to change to 3 phase.

So at the mo I've done this with the Quattro 2 but having to watch the loads the 4.5kW solar is helping a lot and we have had some good solar days. So i've got some cables and just prepping them. Using just the critical load seems super stable at the mo with the Quattro 2.

Yeah i was going to do another thread but i'll put this one to bed with at least a working solution but this does hing on how much power people use in there house i'm a very high user of power, so everything on 5000kVA doesn't cut it, it is ok at the mo but as they say on Game of Thrones Winter Is Coming so solar won't be able to help that much. Next thread would be how that unit is doing, Just throwing out ac 16mm for 25mm all round and the 120mm for the 2 70mm DC cables yes lol DC cable doesn't need to be that big for 1meter run also another distributor for the two connections to the inverter, lucky for me DNO has approved the new inverter change took about 5 mins this time which is long for them so i think i'm pushing there limits but they have not restricted me which is a bonus.

@Craig Chamberlain AC side not as bad for me as its just to the isolation switches every thing else I had as 25mm already only issue no 100amp MCB and I don‘t want to put another RCD as I’ve got the time delay RCD on the whole house, the 100amp 30milli sec one on the victron kept the tripping when the victron was doing its earth tests so might have to just limit it to 63amps. I wish I could have got more solar but roof space is limited unless I go north side, the solar project that i done on my garage roof is working well and producing the max output spec’d on the solis1.5kW, Is this a project that you are going to under take yourself? That’s a massive array mate looking forward to hearing about that you tested the water with the DNO?