question

iae avatar image
iae asked

Noise from a Multiplus 2

Hello,

yesterday I fired up my system for an ESS with Multiplus2 and Pylontech batteries, and was really shocked by the noise that the MP2 is generating, a loud 50Hz hum, even at very low or no power. It gets louder with increasing power level. The sound of the fan is also scary, sounds a little bit like shot bearings when it stops spinning.

To be honest, when I chose the MP2 I did not think much about noise. I have a 10 years old SMA solar inverter running, which is almost inaudible, even at max power, and Victron is selling a lot to RVs, Yachts, Tiny houses and confined spaces in general, so they should be quiet. Also Victron is a high quality product, no chinese junk. So I thought.

What I do not understand is also that the sound changes constantly in volume, even without the load changing.

I had a PV Inverter from Sunways years ago, which was similar in the noise created. It died after 4 years because soldering joints simply fell apart because of the constant vibrations. Sound is vibration, and constant vibration is nothing you want to have in your electronic system... I'm wondering how long the MP2 will last.

Is that normal for the MP2, or Victron inverter/charger products in general ? Does anyone experiences something similar ? Is there a way to reduce the noise ?

Sitting here listening to the MP2 2 stories down...

Thanks, Bernd


Multiplus-II
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

17 Answers
Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

I have a Multiplus Compact and it makes little noise unless it's bulk charging the batteries or if the inverter is supplying 1000 watts or more.

The fan runs only when necessary, again when the inverter/charger is working hard.

2 comments
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

chelmick avatar image chelmick commented ·
Does your Multiplus Compact make a clicking/rattling noise when bulk charging?
0 Likes 0 ·
Kevin Windrem avatar image Kevin Windrem chelmick commented ·
No just a hum which gets louder as the load or charging power increases.
0 Likes 0 ·
Nico Bayer avatar image
Nico Bayer answered ·

Hi

I was also a litte bit shocked how loud they can be. The hum comes from the transformer inside the multi, and some level of it is quite normal.

In my case i can hear the state of the grid connected to it. During the night, when there is no load on the grid, the multis are quite silent, but during the day there is a constant changing hum. This comes from distortion in the grid, that resonate in the transformer.

When i disconnect the grid and there are no loads, i can hear just a little bit of hum.

Does your noise change when you disconnect the grid?

1 comment
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

udo-vogel avatar image udo-vogel commented ·
No !
0 Likes 0 ·
iae avatar image
iae answered ·

Hi,

thanks for the comments. I do not think it's a problem of distortion in the grid, because distortions would not lead to the 50Hz hum that I experience. I have not tried to disconnect the grid.

However it changes quite a lot with load (not to mention the fan).

I talked to somebody who owns a SMA Sunny Island 3000, which he very rarely hears. Both inverters should be the same concept, with transformers, but as SMA is very tight on how to contro their stuff or even read data that is not an option.

I'm still wondering if I'm doing something wrong. Right now the MP2 is running at 250Watt, and I can hear it from 2 stories up with doors open, probably 10m away. I can not imagine having this in a RV or on a yacht. I'm a sailor myself and having that noise on the boat would certainly not encourage a good nights sleep...

I'm not talking about full power, it's more like idle...


2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

udo-vogel avatar image
udo-vogel answered ·

Since last week I have also a Multiplus II running and it make big noisings. ca 60 dB. Not every time, but the hole day. Nothink changing , if I switch off the grid.

How can I see the fan for locking, may be to change the fan ?

Best regards for Spain Udo

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

David avatar image
David answered ·

Yep, mine is a noisy bugger. Lucky it’s in a shed.

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

kallenr avatar image
kallenr answered ·

I always place big rubber rings or pads between the mounting plate and the wall with my customers,
that helps considerably.
Also in the left and right bottom corner between the wall I mounted these rubber rings.
(I total 5 rings with a Multiplus 2)

This way the inverter does not resonate to the wall.
Of course, it continues to cool (fan) at medium powers.
The difference is significant!

2 comments
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

baxter avatar image baxter commented ·
Could you pls provide some pictures? Many thanks!
0 Likes 0 ·
Show more comments
jimsryker avatar image
jimsryker answered ·

I’m concerned to see this. I’ve yet to install my MP II but the area on my 5th wheel is right below the bedroom. Is it possible to remain connected to shore power, whether 30 or 50A and shut off the MP II? At night, it would not need to do any work and I’m hoping to just shut it off with the digital control panel. Would it still pass power to the trailer?

1 comment
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

jimsryker avatar image jimsryker commented ·

Found is discussed in another thread that may address this issue. Appears to be a firmware issue that was resolve in late Oct. 2021.

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/104858/excessive-noise-while-charging-via-new-multiplus-i.html

0 Likes 0 ·
popnic avatar image
popnic answered ·

@IAE Have same issue with my Multiplus II 48 5000.

I ask an installer to look at it and he says that the fan noise and hum out of my Mutliplus II is normal for this model.

Still the fan noise is loud and the housing is amplifying it. My wife ask me if this is also a generator.

One valid option for me is to return or sell the MP2 and buy the old model.

Second option it should be to replace the fan with a quiet one but with same air flow preferable with damping. In this case I think i will loose the warranty. MP2 being a relative not a mature product i will not recommend this option.








2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

harmvic avatar image
harmvic answered ·

Have same issue with my Multiplus II 48 5000.

I updated in feb 2022, it did not make any difference.

Quality of victron is very disappointing, I would say: rubbish.

We live in 2022, this annoying 50Hz buzz is from an old tubelight from the 1940s

Wished I did buy some other brand.

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

heleb avatar image
heleb answered ·

Wow, what a noisy unit the MP2 (48/3000/35-32) is !

Just got mine running this weekend, in ESS mode with Pylontech batteries.

The hum is amazingly loud, once power exceeds 1kW.

But once the fan starts running, all hell breaks lose.
It sounds like a 40 year old bathroom exhaust fan on its last legs.

Updated firmware from 490 to 497, no change.


I'm installing this in an outbuilding, hoping it won't bother my neighbor.

But installing this unit in an RV or boat, is an absolute NO !

Now this is my first experience with Victron, and I love the community support and the Open-Source approach (Venus Pi3, etc), and the features of the MP2.


But that noise! Come on Victron, you can do better!

Cheers

heleb





2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Simon Coram avatar image
Simon Coram answered ·

Yep my MP 2 make humming noise, it’s fitted in my garage which is also my office and it’s annoying as the bedroom is just above it, in the dead of the night I can hear the humming. To say I’m sli disappointed with it.

on the other Hand my older multiplus on the boat is almost silent.

when people ask about the set up because they would like one, I pre warn Them about Where to fit it because of the noise.

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

kallenr avatar image
kallenr answered ·

the unit resonates against the wall!
get 3 large rubber washers between the unit and the bracket and 2 rubber washers between the bottom screws.
day and night difference!

2 comments
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Simon Coram avatar image Simon Coram commented ·

Mines been prebuilt on a board and mounted to the wall, I wonder if I put some rubber mounts behind the board would it help?8428f0bf-a0dd-495f-b767-8215ee4501ff.jpeg

0 Likes 0 ·
Craig Chamberlain avatar image Craig Chamberlain commented ·
@KallenR can you please give a bit more detail on your rubber washer solution? I'm not quite clear where you've added the washers around the bracket. Are you saying that you mounted the bracket directly to the wall and then somehow added the washers between the "hook" on the back of the unit and the bracket? Doesn't this make it less secure? Or did you put the washers between the bracket and the wall? I've just got a Multiplus-II 5kVA and it is indeed a bit on the noisy side. Mine is under my stairs and I'm looking for ways to isolate the 50Hz hum and also to attenuate the fan noise. I'm hoping the rubber mounts can deal with the hum and some acoustic panelling on the walls might attenuate the fans. Wish me luck! :)
0 Likes 0 ·
michaelvh avatar image
michaelvh answered ·

Having the same issue with resonating against the wall. Audible from the adjacent room and even multiple stories up. Just ordered myself a few of these, lets see how this goes064002020.jpg


064002020.jpg (26.3 KiB)
1 comment
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Herbert Müller-Rossbach avatar image Herbert Müller-Rossbach commented ·
Hello Michael,

Did you use the rubber damping elements?
If yes, how content are you regarding noise reduction?

0 Likes 0 ·
Herbert Müller-Rossbach avatar image
Herbert Müller-Rossbach answered ·

Here is what I did to successfully stop the MP2 5000 spreading the noise in the entire house. The MP2 was hanging directly mounted to a wall in the basement.

I attacked only the structure-borne noise of the MP2 by decoupling it from the wall.

In the hardware shop, I bought a damping mat used normally to be put unter washing machines and cut it to the size of the MP2 back side.

I bought special sound insulated dowels. Three for the mounting plate holes and two for the bottom corner holes of the MP2. The german expression for the pegs is: "Fixotec Schallschutzdübel Nennweite 12".

I drilled five holes mit 12mm diameter and about 50mm deep into the wall, as well at the corresponding position of the damping mat.

I put the pegs into the drilled holes. Then I positioned the mat at the wall, fixed the metal plate of the MP2 on top of the mat and fixed it with three screws.

Since the mat is very firm, the plat sits pretty solid and it can carry even the heavy MP2 5000. Of course, you need a solid wall for the plugs.

Currently, my MP2 is held only by the plate with the three screws. With the two bottom holes, I will secure the MP2 absolute safe, after my installation is finished.

The result:
Even if the MP2 operates at high power, there is no more noise to be heard in the other parts of the house. Only if the door of the power room in the basement is open, the acoustic sound is spread.

Conclusion:
With a minor investment (18€ for 10 pegs 12mm and 15€ for the mat) and a bit of labour – the "heavy" lifting the MP2 – I am a happy camper.
All, without touching the MP2, replacing the fans and modifying the control ciruit

I try to add some fotos to show the setup and the used dowels.

Cheers, Herb

img-9008.jpeg

img-9007.jpeg


img-9010.jpeg

img-9011.jpeg


img-9012.jpeg


img-9013.jpeg


img-9007.jpeg (335.7 KiB)
img-9008.jpeg (96.3 KiB)
img-9010.jpeg (181.9 KiB)
img-9011.jpeg (152.8 KiB)
img-9012.jpeg (144.9 KiB)
img-9013.jpeg (121.0 KiB)
6 comments
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

dancrompton avatar image dancrompton commented ·

Thanks for sharing your solution. Much appreciated. I've just stumbled upon this noise issue right before I'm about to install an MP2 under the stairs right next to the living room. It's also on plyboard on a studded wall which will likely amplify this issue.


Quick question. Is the thickness of the foam important? All I can seem to find locally is 10mm and 20mm. Thanks.

0 Likes 0 ·
johnone avatar image johnone dancrompton commented ·
If you have access to Screwfix (UK) they sell memory foam kneeling mats which are the exact size for sandwiching between a Multi 48/5000 and the wall.
1 Like 1 ·
dancrompton avatar image dancrompton johnone commented ·
Brilliant thanks! I have a Screwfix right on my doorstep, that's saved me a lot of messing about. Cheers.


Now I just need to source some of the dowels. Maybe it's the phrasing, but the only stock I can seem to find is in Germany.

0 Likes 0 ·
johnone avatar image johnone dancrompton commented ·

Same here re the dowels, but found the mat was enough of a solution. Another thing people do is take the front cover off and fashion a custom cabinet - the steel cover acts as an acoustic amplifier for the inevitable hum (given transformer). Hum varies a lot depending on load and stability of grid supply. Mounting on a stud wall sounds tricky, though. Is the floor concrete?, could you fix a steel support off the floor?

1 Like 1 ·
pvmaker avatar image pvmaker commented ·
Thanks for the inspiration, implemented the solution as well today and worked like charm!! The fan is still noisy, but this solution here was already a game changer.
0 Likes 0 ·
jdippel avatar image jdippel commented ·
Perfect. Thx for sharing.
0 Likes 0 ·
dancrompton avatar image
dancrompton answered ·

In case anyone has missed it. A free retrofit cure for the excessive fan noise.


https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/108663/victron-multiplus-ii-noise-level-what-is-your-expe.html (Scroll down to the bottom for Guy's post)


https://www.dropbox.com/s/3cvyf66h9j1eigq/2023-02%20-%20MPII%20Retrofit%20kit%20to%20reduce%20low%20RPM%20fan%20noise%20v1.pdf?dl=0

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

tpbradley avatar image
tpbradley answered ·

I have a MultiPlus II 48/5000/70-50 HQ2237 firmware v498 mounted to a brick wall in the garage. Our bedroom is directly above and unfortunately the hum travels up the wall, resonates and amplified into the bedroom.

A solution like the one above, isolating the unit from the wall looked ideal. I'm in the UK and had a lot of trouble sourcing the sound insulated dowels.

However, I discovered Rawlplug have something similar called FLEXI-PLUGS which are available at ScrewFix. https://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-rawlnut-flexi-plugs-m5-x-40mm-50-pack/743kf

The plugs have a metal thread at the bottom end which pulls the plug towards the unit, compressing it and causing the rubber to bulge and fill the hole. These screws are fine for the main bracket, however a longer screw is needed for the bottom two holes. Especially if installing a mat between the wall and the unit. https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-bright-zinc-plated-roofing-bolts-m5-x-50mm-10-pack/8754j

For the mat, I used one of these cut to size https://www.screwfix.com/p/mottez-shock-absorbing-floor-mat-grey-blue-620-x-620mm/1374v

With this solution, the noise has been greatly reduced but I hoped it would prevent the hum completely. I have a newer model which already has the fan noise fix on the PCB. When the fan was at full speed I was able to hear it. This solution has fixed fan noise! I can no longer hear the fan when under high loads, either charging or discharging.

I can still hear the hum but it's greatly reduced, I'd say it's removed the low frequency pounding and softened the higher frequency hum. I used to hear the hum when discharging at 1500W, now I can't hear it at all. But I can still hear hum at anything more than 1500W.

UPDATE: I thought this had fixed the fan noise but I'm not sure now. I need to investigate further but I think it's the fan I can now hear and not the hum. It still wakes me up when charging from the grid overnight.

UPDATE 2: After more testing it's definitely the inverter hum I can hear. I don't hear the fan noise at all any more.

Aside from this, the unit is an exceptional piece of kit, especially when combined with a DC charge controller and a Fronius inverter on AC Out. It makes for an incredibly capable and versatile system.

A couple of images of the main bracket attached to the plugs through the mat. Initially I tried the mat solution as I couldn't find the plugs. It did make a difference but the plugs help even more. I found it was easier to assemble the bracket with plugs before inserting into the wall and tightening.

img-4191.jpgimg-4192.jpg



img-4191.jpg (157.4 KiB)
img-4192.jpg (177.8 KiB)
2 comments
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

dancrompton avatar image dancrompton commented ·
I did the same other than rubber plugs, and although I have nothing to compare it too as I fitted my rubber matt on installation there doesn't seem to be any reverberation at all. Nothing noticeable anyway.


I did buy the flexi plugs but didn't end up using them in the end. I'm sure they are perfectly sufficient and rated for the load, but i just didn't trust hanging my Multi up there on them and used coaching bolts instead. I figure the rubber matt is essentially a giant rubber washer for the bracket anyway.
0 Likes 0 ·
tpbradley avatar image tpbradley dancrompton commented ·

I was concerned about flexi plugs too, so I contacted Rawlplug and they said this which I believe means each plug can withstand an 84Kg force when used in brick. When installing them, I found these plugs felt far more secure than the red wall plugs they were replacing.

It is the substrate that determines the load resistance of the fastener. According to our tests, the pull-out load resistance of R-RNT-M5X40-50 for MZ20 bricks is N~rec~= 0.83 kN (recommended). However, this is the static load resistance, so increasing the number of fixings to the 5 you mention would be a good solution.
1 Like 1 ·
fli037 avatar image
fli037 answered ·

I do confirm that adding the mat behind the multi has changed the game. Absolutely no noise transmited via walls!

https://www.hornbach.de/p/waschmaschinenunterlage-60x60x1-5-cm-antirutschmatte-antivibrationsmatte/4063923/


1705768447791.png


1705768428216.png



1705768428216.png (894.6 KiB)
1705768447791.png (815.3 KiB)
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.