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Hello _OS_,
I have created a new question, with instructions for how this should be done:
Thanks for the suggestion.
finally seeing when an answer/comment is posted is very nice.
the 'preview on hover' is annoying as it covers the topics below it, you have to move your pointer to the side before you can click on a topic below it.
(my opinion at least)
Exactly the kind of thing I wanted to hear. Thanks. I will try to make it harder to activate accidentally, and if I can’t find the right balance, remove it.
Would it be possible to have a separate forum for installers? As more and more beginners questions ('read the manual' or 'basic electrical knowledge') come in, I'm hesitant to give answers that might lead inexperienced people to do things they think were advised 'in the official Victron forums'
I'm not very good at reading people, and not good at teaching / explaining stuff in simple terms, while I think I can give useful input for more experienced users / installers.
Also, it might be time to make some different subforums for MPPT - Multi - Venus related stuff?
A seperate and more advanced space has definitely been considered. The way I would like to do it involves some extra work in preparation, That has been going on for a little while now, and at some point, we might skip the advanced integration and just proceed without.
I can completely relate with your hesitation to give full and frank advice without knowing the level of experience, or who might read it.
I am resisting the temptation to seperate the site into product specific sections.
I think it would create more problems than it solves, and will go into the details if many others also request it.
basically with the number of topics per day now already, questions get 'lost' soon and people think they're left in the dark.
Might want to think about a different division?
ESS system
Camper / Boat / small off grid
Off grid big
???
And maybe a list of 'solved' topics to refer to when the same question comes in for the 38th time.
With different three division of interessts you have the problem of one pot three times with all in... divison of products it self is better and much more logical for users. like everyone knows ist from a shop or victron product page.
I am also no friend of building a seperate installer section because everyone who just install "one" single mppt or inverter thinks he is an installer. Maybe first time as proffesional and maybe privat. You can't decide how is allowed to post in a installer section and who is not.
Yes / no, in an ESS installation the products are used very differently, plus a single MPPT in a small 12V only system is different from an off grid system with inverters, Venus, etc.
I know it's difficult to split up, you'd probably end up with sub-forums later as the amount of topics per day grows.
as for an installer-section: that could be linked to https://professional.victronenergy.com/
I'm really not keen on giving answers that are not suitable for a lot of readers. So many questions and answers here that doesn't make sense... The only other option now is the developers list, and a lot of 'advanced' questions don't belong there also.
@Boekel Linking to Victron Professional is exactly the solution I wish to take.
That is also a small part of bigger plans.
You can't differ here because there are customers of both worlds which buy simpel a small Mppt or and/or ESS Offgrid Systems. Pro installers are generelly trained on products and they know how to handel that or know where to ask for to get an immideatly answer. I don't think that pro installer primarly ask here first. Most people who ask here are generell untrained people or online buyers who doesn't have a support partner for questions. Thats why in my opinion that doesn't make any sense to split them up in a seperate section. Of course it can be tried but i don't think that there would be very much pro installers, just privat "installers" :). But you can split up into an ESS section, Mppt, LIfe, Chager.... aso .. :)
As i already said to Markus thats a really big mistake. I understand the intention to have only one single section because of new community at the beginning. But at the moment it's going to be, moreover, it is already a little bit chaotic. And you have to think forward that you will create much much much more users in the next year. And then? You wanna really put all info of alls Post in one BOX? Completly unstructured?
I am advising you from my experience to handel the problem and situation now, because it will not going to be more easy in half a year. I can promis you if you don't think about this now, you will think about me in have a year, and it will be much more complicated then. :)
And as Boekel has written a can also confirm that queations got lost because if they are an second page. which nearly doesnt take half a day.. the chance to be answerd is much lower.
regards Peter
I agree in the area of questions getting lost and this needs to be looked at especially if you dont get back to the site for a week or so
so maybe a section under your own profile just showing replys to answers that you have given, or some easy way to track answers given that have been replied to
that only the individual sees
I'd love to see a 'Last Read' flag in the manner of what email clients do. Ie. If I've read the last answer or comment there before, the flag shows by maybe a different coloured thread title.
I'm not suggesting that would be an easy thing to do, as requires 'personalising' for each user.
I would love this feature too. It should be possible, and very valuable to regular visitors but isn't available and will not be for a while I am afraid.
This is definitely on a longer term development list.
Guy it would be nice to have a BASIC questions answered area selection,
ie what are the generic settings for battery voltages or what is a screw size on a device (why cant they just measure another screw and head off to the hardware store Hmmm ) etc etc
We could then send people who put basic questions up, without reading past questions, this may save repeating the same answer over and over. and this will just get worse as more people use this forum, plus we could just refer them to a link for the answer.
How we you do that would have to be thought through.
I see Boekel has requested a separte area for installers etc, I do see his point, however if we move to having a installers only area, It may then mean that some installers never come here and help out.
This community is not intended to replace the normal lines of support and documentation for Victron products.
We are at our best when we are pointing and improving to the existing resources for those that can't find them, revealing the gaps and deficiencies that exist and then filling them in. And learning ourselves all the time while doing so.
In the past 30 days the site had 5,725 unique users, of those, 412 registered a new account.
All the sites content is available to anonymous users, and indexed by google. I interpret those results to be that only 1 in 10 people had a problem with their Victron experience, found us, couldn't find the answer they were looking for, so registered an account to ask a new question for themselves.
I have been watching the questions since the launch, and there are duplicates, but not that many for the over 1200 questions that have been answered. I would guess less than in 1/100.
In some ways, I really like the duplicate questions - because it is a big sign to me that the CORE documentation and support isn't good enough and HOW it can be improved to be clearer.
Wow that's some positive thinking ;)
I'm guilty for this behavior myself too: get a new product, install it and lookup questions on the internet. But I'm quite good at google-fu and look for the online manuals and -then- use search function inside documentation.
Too many people connect their new product, then go online and complain that it doesn't work 100% like they want out of the box.
You can be sure that customers always prefer to ask bevore instead of reading manual. Simple customer psycholgy. :)
Yes, I understand. The manuals are not a pleasurable cover to cover read for more people.
The BIG goal is that the searching/asking process instantly reveals the correct section of the manual, with no other human being required. That is what I am working on now.
At the rate that Victron is growing, there is no solution or site structure that will keep up for even a few years without some next level thinking, and machine/algorithm learning support.
In general internet terms, I don't think it will ever be possible to get people to read previously answered questions. It's always been a problem no matter which platform is used (phpBB or whatever). AnswerHub attempts to solve this by suggesting previous answers as you type in a new question subject, but either people don't realise this or the way that they ask does not flag up previous posts.
It can be mildly annoying answering the same question over and over (backwards shunt springs to mind), but it's the nature of the beast I suppose. The more permutations of the same question that there are, the better the AnswerHub algorithm will work in suggesting previously answered questions, I hope.
I'm with Paul B on the separate installers area. Installers can impart their valuable knowledge in the "Basic" area too, if they want to. Also, keeping people out of the "Installers Only" area prevents people from learning new things. The way I understand it is that learning is part of the bigger picture that this community represents.
Creating an account, typing out a question, then waiting for a response is not without its efforts either. I presume most people just want a quick and easy answer if they can get one.
Search efforts are also only as good as the clear, precise and articulate question titles. Otherwise excellent content can be buried. That is the reason mainly for the Community Guidelines, to help improve the process of asking and answering questions so they build into a whole that is much greater than its parts.
Learning is absolutely central to the purpose of this community. Victron already provides in person training around the world. This is an opportunity to reach further and wider and give everyone with an interest and an internet connection the opportunity to observe and engage with the process of troubleshooting dynamic, real world problems.
Also, it would be nice to easily see if there are reply's in topic's you've commented in.
When you post an answer or a comment, it should subscribe you to the question and you should receive an email (daily digest or immediate) if someone else responds. Is this not happening?
I may have to fix something.
I do get a daily spam-mail, and I think an email when someone tag's me.
I'd like to see a mechanism that auto bumps unanswered questions back to the list top, it takes less than a day for questions to disappear into the second page.
Also some method of highlighting an answer as "not an answer" or "not a relevant response to the question"
I ask this, simply because over the last week I have asked two questions (identical topic, just different wording) one of which received no reply - the other from a non staff member hinting at a topic that didnt exist (a typical "read the manual reply")
As it stands now, this Q&A format is somewhat chaotic.
There are two types of response. Comments and Answers. Users often confuse the two.
Right now, an answer, any answer immediately reduces the visibility of the question because it is no longer on the unanswered questions list at the side or bottom of every page. Unfortunately for some users, they post an answer to their own question instead of a comment, trying to bump it up and instead cause it to become answered and invisible.
There is a possible solution, and now might be the right time, but it would introduce a whole new world of chaos.
I can change the setting for the Unanswered questions list to show all questions without an ACCEPTED answer. The consequences of this is that list would go from it's current 54/1230 unanswered questions to 758/1230 unaccepted questions.
Another alternative would be to give the asker of the question the permission to move answers to comments (but this would have discoverability issues and unlikely to help new people).
Thank you for your reply,
Could I draw your attention to one of my questions that has not received any response.
https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/6956/ess-5-recharge-rate-of-charge-control.html
Also - Victron staff member responses are helpfully indicated (via their username) - if there are accredited (trained) installers who also impart their knowledge here it would be helpful if their status could be identified as well - this to perhaps allow the credibility of responses to be gauged by the staff/installer/user status ?
This is currently left to those users themselves to self identify their credibility or qualifications.
I have some future features planned that should also help with this.
It's a good suggestion.
Guy, being an IT guy I am curious why you don't use one of the GPL (free) BB systems in use almost everywhere? Free Forum Software listing Most will have addressed most if not all the features people want most. And are customizable due to the source code being available if someone has time to go that route. .
Lack of live search was probably the biggest issue in the packages we looked at.
We wanted a Question + Answer primary focus, with comments and discussion secondary.
We were a few days from launch from an Open Source product (discourse) when it became apparent it was not going to behave like we wanted. I reviewed dozens of packages. Nothing is perfect, and this was the closest we came to desired functionality out of the box.
The time to deploy, and scale up was also a factor in the end.
Guy,
Have a thought, rather than a "Question/Answer" format why not, as is normal with most forums, have a Post (New Thread) and responses; and then rather than having an "Accepted Answer", allow the original poster to elevate a response to "The Answer"?
Also, since you are showing the last answer, comment, or edit on the main screen, can you please include a selection box to go to that post? This post is going to be buried in the middle of a long thread.
Thanks,
Pat
Hi Pat,
Thanks for the considered comment.
The reason is that the intention was to create a Question and Answer platform, not one for open forum posts and back and forth discussion.
It is deliberate that the most recent comments are hard to find, because the content is indended to be focused around a question and an answer, not the discussion about the answer.
Though the site has grown to include a lot more discussion, which is also fine. It is not the goal.
As it is, many users to do not "Accept an Answer", though all have permission to do so for their own posts. Removing the comment/answer distinction and leaving that responsibility to them would mean that many answers are lost among threaded discussions.
This site has 100x as many viewers (who google a problem and then come here looking for an answer) than it does participants (who post questions, answers and comments).
I'll definitely concede the current format needs additional moderation to do what it is intended to (eg accept more answers, convert good info in comments form to answer form.).
Guy,
Thanks for your response. You have done a superlative job in building this forum. I suspect that the volume of traffic has exceeded your initial expectations. And, as you have discovered, getting Humans to behave in an intended manner is like trying to herd cats.
The reason I asked about a "Go to the most recent post button" is that many times I follow a thread, not looking for an answer, but just to gain knowledge.
There is a lot of knowledge contained in the comments to both Questions and Answers, sometimes more than the Questions or Answers themselves. Also, there are times when a question can have more than one, and different, correct answer.
As you state above, this was not your original intent, but I have considerably increased my understanding of Victron Systems by reading those comments.
Just my perspective,
Pat
also, like in this topic, you have to scroll through the whole page to find the new posts, and look at post time to try to see quickly where the new posts are. Not very user friendly.
I am extremely aware of this issue and would like to find a solution. But it does not come easily.
I suppose to say that when choosing a system that handled questions and answers well, there was definitely some compromises. Lots of threaded discussions in a single question is absolutely one of the weaknesses.
I notice that it is not possible to change the username, it would be appreciate here. Thanks
Hi Nicolas,
Sort of.
You can change the name that other users see by changing/adding the "Real Name" section of your profile. You cannot edit your log-in username though.
@Guy Stewart (Victron Energy Staff)
A suggestion: Create an "Admin" or "Feedback" space or similar where we can discuss topics like this.
Do you think there would be enough content to warrant it?
Might just be this post in it! Though I agree this post is now a bit overwhemling.
I will think about it. Thanks for the suggestion.
Hi @Guy Stewart (Victron Energy Staff) Yes I think it would be enough content to warrant it. Today I wanted to give you some feedback and I spent some time bringing this discussion back. If you can make it "sticky" would be enough.
Hi @Guy Stewart (Victron Energy Staff) I would prefer that a thread starter is automatically subscribed to the discussion he/she is starting. I have several times accidentally discovered replies in threads I have started that I have forgot to subscribe to.
Thanks!
I discovered now that there is a setting for this and I have it on but I don't always get notifications.
I have noticed that some "answers" that were just "guesses" by well-meaning participants are, well, incorrect. In some cases a Victron staff member has come to the question and given the correct answer. But the incorrect response still sits there, behaving like negative information.
It would be good to have a way to mark such a response for removal. (Also, I suppose that Victron staff could go ahead and prune when they respond, as needed.)
You can report a comment or an answer.
It then appears for me and I can review it and decide what to do.
Thanks for the comment here, I also see this as a problem and need help from people like you to report it when you see it, so I can correct it.
