question

masi avatar image
masi asked

Zero feed in issues

Hi, I have 3 phase system with Quattro 48V/5000VA, 2 Victron LiFePO4 batteries( 25,6V/200Ah), running ESS with Fronius ongrid inverter connected at the AC input of Quattros. The meter is Carlo Gavazzi EM24(with CTs). The problem is that in case I'll set "Fronius zero feed in" to ON, PV production is reduced to the necessary load, but even when it is a lot of sun, the charging battery is limited very low or zero. In the case I switch off the zero feed in, it is working well, but I don't want to export a lot of power into the grid. It seems that the smart meter is faster than Quattro and first is ordered zero feed in and after that is not enough power to charge the battery.

ESS
1547593219645.png (60.0 KiB)
15 comments
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

luis avatar image luis commented ·

I have a similar problem. In my case, I have much more PV production (AC-In) that AC Loads and the battery is been charged. The smart meter measures AC-Loads and avoids zero feed-in, but it limits the PV production that could charge the battery faster. If I disable the zero feed-in feature, the battery charges at higher currents (but there is power fed into the Grid :S)

0 Likes 0 ·
Phil Gavin avatar image Phil Gavin luis commented ·

Just a thought, could you do some tests to confirm your CG meter's polarity of CT's.

To ensure import/export is not swapped.

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image masi Phil Gavin commented ·

In that case I should see export during the night.

0 Likes 0 ·
sean avatar image sean commented ·

Could you confirm that you have both a Fronius and a Victron meter connected at your main grid incoming point of entry, the Victron connected the the Venus device and the Fronius meter connected to the Fronius inverter ?

And, that you have enabled zero export on both the Venus device and on the Fronius inverter ?

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image masi sean commented ·

In ESS there is not a Fronius smartmeter.

0 Likes 0 ·
mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ masi commented ·

even stronger: using one together with ESS is not supported; not necessary; and doing so causes all sorts of issues. See documentation.

0 Likes 0 ·
sean avatar image sean mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

You misunderstood - a Fronius zero export system needs feedback from their smart meter to function correctly - ESS needs either feedback from a CT or the CG to function correctly.

They are not physically electrically connected.

0 Likes 0 ·
screenshot-20190304-134810-chrome.jpg (191.3 KiB)
screenshot-20190221-000818-chrome.jpg (185.8 KiB)
mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ sean commented ·

Maybe, maybe not; maybe I'm mis-understanding your last message.

What I know with 100% certainty is that, in an installation that has Victron ESS and Fronius PV Inverters; the Fronius gets the Feedback from the GX device.

No Fronius Smart Meter is allowed, not required, in the same system.

See ESS documentation.

0 Likes 0 ·
boekel avatar image boekel ♦ mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

And that seems to be the point, it seems there -is- a smart meter installed, thus creating problems.
Both @MaSi and @Luis (topic starter) mention a 'smart meter'

0 Likes 0 ·
Show more comments
sebastian-barattero avatar image sebastian-barattero commented ·

Hi MaSi,

Have you been able to solve this issue? I've the exact same problem and don't know how to make ESS and Fronius Zero Feed In work together correctly.


Thanks!


0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image masi sebastian-barattero commented ·

Unfortunately no, even without zero feed in is not quit right. I can see many times that ongrid inverter is exporting to the grid and in the same time the battery is discharging on the load! It is problem just with a three phase system and Fronius inverter connected at the AC IN of the Quattros. At home I have an 1ph. system, but the Fronius inverter is connected at the AC OUT of Multi, that one has not this issue.

0 Likes 0 ·
Show more comments
6 Answers
mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image
mvader (Victron Energy) answered ·

Hi @MaSi; I’m not familiar with such problem; and looks like no one else is either. Sorry.

I recommend to follow the official support channels; and contact your dealer. See

https://www.victronenergy.com/support

2 comments
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

masi avatar image masi commented ·

Unfortunately I can not get a solution on that way, too. I would like to speak with one of your engineer or maybe if I'll know the internal logic of ESS I'll see the issue. It seems before it decides to charge the battery (because it seen a pv surplus), the zero feed in logic is faster.

0 Likes 0 ·
Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold commented ·

Trying to get a solution to my problems but seems no answers.

When battery is with life then fronius zero feed-in limits the fronius and only a little charging. Why?

If I switch to without life then the charge rate is much higher immediately the change is entered.

Same if I go to charge only, charge increases.

Problem 2. When I implemented zero feed-in setting on the fronius modbus tcp and inf+FS the internet connectivity drops periodically and ccgx drops the fronius, the inverter limit status is “no”, and the limit value not show on ccgx PV device page. Ccgx scan for PV takes a long time to reconnect, eventually does, then status is “yes” and limit value shows.

Problem 3. I entered the incorrect IP address on ccgx now I have 2 addresses and the delete ip does not work. How can I get rid of the incorrect IP?

Fronius is on ac out 1 on a 5 kW Multiplus. No meters, no bms, all loads are on multi ac outputs. Only grid on input. Ac in limit 40 Amp.

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image
masi answered ·

Is it mandatory in this case(grid parallel) to set up at Fronius inverter "MG50" ?

1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold commented ·

Yes mine is MG50.

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image
masi answered ·

I also observed that in case I chose "keep battery charged", the ongrid invertor increase it's power and in this case all seems to be ok. The problem is that I have to look everyday to switch from keep battery charged at optimized way

2 comments
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Riaan Barkhuizen avatar image Riaan Barkhuizen commented ·

Hi Masi,

Do you have a solution to the zero feed-in problems yet? At the moment I'm having a similar experience on a 3phase system. When I disable zero-export, all is well from a charging perspective, but I need to be careful to enable it again as soon as the battery reaches absorption.

In my case with zero export enabled, the system will charge +/-10kW above the current building load at best, unfortunately at that rate, the battery will only reach 70-75% SoC.

CCL, DCL charge limits are no problem.

If it was possible to disable zero-feed-in based on battery SoC I'm fairly certain I could get the system to work automatically.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards

Riaan

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image masi Riaan Barkhuizen commented ·

No solution so far, in short time I'll get authorizated to export into the grid and I'll disable zero feed in.

0 Likes 0 ·
luis avatar image
luis answered ·

I am facing a similar issue.

While activating Zero feed-in:


With no Zero feed-in:

There is one minute span between both pictures. In the second one I have the "problem" that I am feeding into the Grid, but I am charging way faster the battery. This shows that the battery can be charged faster that is it in the Zero feed-in configuration. The system is regulating the PV inverter too much. This shouldn't be the correct behaviour.


1554800051554.png (279.3 KiB)
1554800163916.png (274.6 KiB)
9 comments
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold commented ·

Do you know if they addressing this problem?

I have observed that charging is low or zero but the ccgx is limiting my fronius. For now i have zero feed - in switched off. Small amount of feed-in but at least the battery is getting charged.

I have logged my tests but seems they dont have time to correct this.

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image masi Keith Arnold commented ·

I have the same problem, the system is similar with yours. See here https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/5398/zero-feed-in-issues.html

When I switch on the DVCC the battery was charged better, but just with zero feed in off.

I have another system 1 phase, Fronius connected on the Victron's AC output, here there is not such a problem. Still looking to solve the issue.

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image masi masi commented ·

Sorry, don't follow the link, is this topic!

0 Likes 0 ·
Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold masi commented ·

Yes DVCC is on. I have not tried it off... but if I switch zero feed-in off then immediately the charge goes up.

0 Likes 0 ·
Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold masi commented ·

I have tried DVCC off, no change.

I have now changed to battery without life, now it seems to be charging better, even with zero feed-in on. For now I will observe it.

My router however still drops the fronius, then the ccgx takes ages to scan and find it again. If I change the modbus off tcp and change off int+sf, then it does not drop the fronius but of course then the zero feed-in status is “no”.

Not winning with this set up!

0 Likes 0 ·
masi avatar image masi Keith Arnold commented ·

If you are connected at the router WiFi, try to change at ethernet cable, it is more stable. In my case wi-fi is ok, too.

0 Likes 0 ·
Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold masi commented ·

Has been fine for more than a year. I only added victron multi lately and when I put in the settings for zero feed in, then my trouble on the router started.

0 Likes 0 ·
Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold masi commented ·

Is something I thought of, the fronius is a fare distance from the router but worth a try.

0 Likes 0 ·
Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold masi commented ·

the latest firmware for Datamanager has increased the wifi power. i think the firmware that i installed when i did the zero feed in settings made the wifi weaker. the notes on the latest release said the wifi power had been fixed.... so i am communicatings better.

but still have low charging. i have switch zero feed-in of, reinstalled my smart meter and will try limit the fronius this way as the other way is not working. Victron need some real control engineers and then it will get sorted.

0 Likes 0 ·
Keith Arnold avatar image
Keith Arnold answered ·

i have smaller system. Fronius Primo 4 on AC out. and if zero feed-in is on, then the Fronius output is limited, and battery either not charging or just charging a little.

switch zero feed-in of and then the charge goes up, fronius output is not restricted. and i had enough load so no export anyway.

no meters involved as i have all my load on AC out 1 and 2.

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

masi avatar image
masi answered ·

Hi, it seems it is a general issue in software. The system react with 40-50 seconds delay when condition changed. In my case I have "zero feed in" ON, when the pv production is bigger than consumption it has to start charging the battery, but because of that delay zero feed in is faster and the system reduce the power instead to charge the battery. Another case is for ESS system when grid is off, the battery is fully charged and a big amount of pv energy surplus. The system must start to increase the frequency in order to reduce the power. Again I measured 40-50 seconds up to the system reacted, mean time the voltage on the battery increase a lot. Can someone from Victron let us see the software logic, please?

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.