Hello.The datasheet of inverters specify the peak power. How long does this peak last?
asked
Peak power of Victron Inverters
Here is some further details courtesy of Victron training presentations from @Margreet Leeftink (Victron Energy Staff) and information from @Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff) - famous Multiplus Overload webinar.
Thank you Guy, very good and important informations, as always from you...
And as usual, just a messenger passing along something I learned from others :)
@Guy Stewart (Victron Energy Staff) here is an extraction of the data's from VRM . I have a MultiPlus Compact 24/2000/50-30 which works with ESS. Frequently it sends me warning notifications : "overload". I highlighted some cases.
- overload when the output power iis between 714 W - 1182 W
- the power that the inverter can handle is between 1100 W (at 65°C) and 1600 W (at 25°C)
In that system example, the battery voltage is very low, therefor the current must be higher to deliver the required power demanded.
In this case, the system is only giving you warnings, and has not shut down. It is able to deliver the power, but you should be aware that if the battery voltage falls any lower, or the load rises any higher then an actual overload protection shutdown may occur.
1600W / 28V = 57A
1600W / 24V = 66A
15% additional current is required for the same power at low battery voltage.
In this case, please also make sure that all firmware and assistants are up to date. There have been some adjustments made to the power delivery algorithms in ESS mode.
Thanks for the information, this is incredibly helpful!
I'm running into a similar problem where I'm not sure if my system is "OK" or not. My battery bank system is paired with the MultiPlus 12/2000/80 inverter/charger, and when I run my air conditioner the system temporarily hops to ~2500W power draw, with the alarm light flashing.
I'm not sure how long the air conditioner will temporarily pull this amount for, but am I reading the above chart correctly that it can pull 130% of nominal power (2000W) for 30 minutes? If so, that should be more than enough time, especially given the sporadic nature of the A/C booting up.
Thanks in advance for the help!
Hi: After reading the above I am still struggling to understand what is meant by maximum apparent feed in power and peak power. If we use the Multiplex II 48/8000/110-100 as an example and it is only attached to a sufficiently dimensioned and charged battery what would be the peak AC output power from the inverter? Is it for example 8000VA x 1.3 or 10400VA for up to 30 minutes? I am guessing the peak power figure of 15000W from the datasheet is achieved when the grid or a genset is attached as 10400VA + 8000VA is approximately 15000W.
Thank you
@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) for these information.
I am still confuse about the following:
- From picture 1, I understand nominal power (5000VA for a 5000VA unit) is a half hour power. Meaning to me that after that half hour at that nominal power (nominal output current exactly) the unit will overloads.
- On picture 2, the table second line (130%of nominal power, 30min) would mean to me:
Unit will run up to 1.3*5000=6500VA up to 30min time and overload above/after that.
So it seems to me the 2 pictures contradicts. What did I misunderstand ?
Also should we read on the picture 2 third line "Overload where the output voltage remains UNstable"? (instead of remain stable)
Thank you for clarification about that in order to properly size à 15kVA 3 phases system.
I can say that on my own 5k inverters, in ambient temps of 25C - 20C, I can maintain 4000W for about 5 minutes before it derates to 3700-3800W. More recently in ambient temps 34C and above it derates almost immediately and under sustained loads drops to near 2800W. So don’t size to the top-end of the inverters spec. As an aside the panels derate around 20% as well in that range.
Thanks
@nickdb for your feedback.
Do you know what was your batterie voltage when the inverter derated ?
Was running off solar at the time so battery voltage didn't really play a part.
It can, I have 6500W of panels which usually runs between 4000 and 5400W depending on temps and conditions. Mostly doesn't matter when you can only invert 2900-3700W.
My battery can also provide 400A which is way beyond what is required but you can watch the loads shift to grid as the inverters heat up with fans running at full tilt.
It was the motivation to upgrade my own system to 2 x5kVA in parallel.
So the 130% of nominal power during 30min capacity explained by Victron team would not be effective !
From my experience with different sizes of inverters (5, 10 and 15kVA) on the quattro range from both 120 and 230V ranges, I can confidently say and I have tested this several and enough times to say that the quattro range does not reach the peak power being twice the nominal power at all and any load just above the kVA P30 rating overload the inverter instantaneously. I am really interested to see test and real data from Victron proving that these inverters reach peak power.
Therefore, I do not recommend to design any system taking the peak power into account as you will end up with inverters overloaded, trust me.
The quattro range is a great product but to me, without any doubt, this is their weakest point in comparison with their competitors on industrial application.
Dear Jesus,
I found your comment while searching for definition of "peak power" for our 15KVA Quattro. Do you think your experience with the quattros that it cannot handle more than P30 would also apply for very short power peaks (0.3 sec)?
Background: We are defining a system with 50-70% standard load as average (K=0.95). By adding a new planned x-ray device it would be a few times 130% for duration of 0.3s per hour (every time a x-ray picture is taken). I am concerned that this might kill the Victrons over time.
Hi Henrik, I have done some experimental tests and managed to get 120kW from a 90kW unit for a few seconds with a certain but not too bad voltage drop but I dont know if in your particular case it would work, maybe yes, maybe not, also depends on your power factor, so I would suggest to be conservative defining your system
