question

cardy01 avatar image
cardy01 asked

Simple way to switch on/off a virtual switch?

I use a virtual switch to Ignore AC In so that my fridge runs off battery rather than (expensive) marina shore power. It works fine. When we are on the boat we use a 1600W kettle for tea making. The AC Ignore threshold is 1s so we have ~ 5 cycles before the AC Ignore stops ignoring which generates a warning on the inverter. Is there a simple way to toggle off the AC Ignore before using the kettle?

virtual switch
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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw commented ·

I may be missing something, but without knowing enough about the size of the system etc, have you considered using dedicated AC ignore? I found the only time it may result in a warning is when the battery voltage drops to low due to a low state of charge, otherwise it switches in under 20ms and playing around (lowering the W paramater) it can be flawless on my testbench (unless you boil the kettle very often maybe)
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cardy01 avatar image cardy01 ejrossouw commented ·

Thanks - yes - that's approximately how I have it set up currently (slightly different values but same principle).

It took me a while to get the Dedicated Ignore thresholds right so that it ignored the fridge but didn't ignore the kettle.

It's a small Victron inverter with a 330Ah battery bank so pulling 1600W even for very short periods is a strain. To support the kettle in inverter mode I really need another 330Ah of battery to stay within "honest" discharge rates but that seems a ridiculous solution.

If the solution wiring the two relays together and doing a bit of config works I may stay with that (Engineering solution) or I might buy a smaller kettle (non-Engineering solution).

Edited to add - I see you have Don't Ignore set to Zero secs - maybe that's the answer

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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw cardy01 commented ·
The idea is to switch to the grid while the kettle boils the water and then back, which should put no strain on the inverter as it is in passthru. I also found lowering the power level at which it switches to a touch under the inverter's peak output also helped elimenating the warnings and I test with only a 800VA and a too small 60Ah Victron Lithium battery ;)
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3 Answers
Alexandra avatar image
Alexandra answered ·

@Cardy01

From how it is programmed now, no.

Do you have a GX?

Do you use the generator start stop from the GX?

If you dont there is another way to ignore ac but also have the ability to override it. Requires a bit of basic wiring.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/assistants:ignore_ac_input_using_the_generator_assistant

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://community.victronenergy.com/storage/attachments/24327-how-to-override-ignore-ac.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiNs7fey76GAxVuVUEAHURHLZoQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3KcWkbFubU_gdQdofzsnO-

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cardy01 avatar image cardy01 commented ·

Yes - I have a Cerbo - but no I don't use the generator start/stop - I will investigate because that's easier to toggle than using VE Configure to turn on/off the VS - thank you!


The 2nd link has been changed - it redirects here https://community.victronenergy.com/storage/attachments/24327-how-to-override-ignore-ac.pdf

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cardy01 avatar image cardy01 cardy01 commented ·
@Alexandra - sorry potentially dumb question .... I assume the Cerbo will instruct the Multiplus to Ignore AC In via the VE Direct cable connection?
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mirekn avatar image mirekn cardy01 commented ·

You need a dedicated 2-wire cable to connect cerbo relay to multiplus-II.

When I was trying to configure ignore ac using generator start/stop I found a very helpful video on youtube, search google for 'Different Ways to Ignore AC Input on a Victron MultiPlus 2 Inverter'. The author shows how to wire cerbo and multiplus.


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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ mirekn commented ·

@Cardy01

The dumb question is always the one that wasn't asked but should have been ;).

The only Way to have the cerbo directly control the inverter with no extra wiring is to use node red.

A little less simple (unless you know how to program) than the generator start stop idea with two wires from the gx relay to the inverter relay and some simple programming with an mk3.

@mirekn made a good suggestion too. Sometimes it is easier to watch a video.

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cardy01 avatar image cardy01 Alexandra ♦ commented ·

@Alexandra

Node Red seems like an elegant solution :-)

Otherwise it will be the 2 wires and a little configuration option

Thanks

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Jürgen Scharfe avatar image
Jürgen Scharfe answered ·

Yes, there a simple way using assistnats to extract the general flag an return it back to the multiplus. This works for larger ( with 2 relays and 2 inputs ) as well as for the smaller ones with only one alarm relay and a temperature input

You must use an bunch of assistant to switch one of the relays.

In my example K2 ( or the resp. open collector outputs or the alarm relay )

Use this output to operate a spdt relay with 12 V coil and wire the relay's com contact to Aux2 ( in my case or the temperatur input ) .

You can also wire a manual in line

The NC contact is wired to the Multiplus GND , NO contact remains open


programmable relay (size:176)
*) Use General Flag
*) Set relay on
*) when Auxiliary input 2 is closed for 10 seconds. ( you can also temperautre input )

programmable relay (1) (size:37)
*) Use General Flag
*) Set relay off
*) when Auxiliary input 2 is open for 0 seconds.

general flag user (size:5)
*) Use general flag to ignore AC input 1

programmable relay (2) (size:32)
*) Use primary programmable relay.
*) Set relay on
*) when DC input voltage
higher than 51.50 volt for 60 seconds.

programmable relay (3) (size:50)
*) Use primary programmable relay.
*) Set relay off
*) when load higher than 600 Watt for 30 seconds.

programmable relay (4) (size:47)
*) Use primary programmable relay.
*) Set relay off
*) when load higher than 700 Watt for 1 seconds.

programmable relay (5) (size:32)
*) Use primary programmable relay.
*) Set relay off
*) when Overload pre-alarm for 10 seconds.

programmable relay (6) (size:32)
*) Use primary programmable relay.
*) Set relay off
*) when Temperature pre-alarm for 10 seconds.

programmable relay (7) (size:38)
*) Use primary programmable relay.
*) Set relay off
*) in case of a general system failure.
*) when Overload alarm for 0 seconds.

This works and AC ignore is safe as usual . There a bunch of of "OFF" conditions to the multiplus into grid passthrough


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Jürgen Scharfe avatar image
Jürgen Scharfe answered ·

By the way to solution also allows to control charge current remotely if you control the voltage on the input. This is particulalry helpful with small Multiplus which only have one analg input ( Temperature sensor )

0..1 V Inverter operation no Grid

2.0 to 2.4 no charging , no inverting

2.5-4.5 V charge current control

5V (=open with pull-up to 5V ) Grid operation

For proper torn-off of Inverting mode you should briefly ( 5s ) set the input to 5 V ( open )

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Related Resources

Additional resources still need to be added for this topic

VE Configure/Virtual Switch

Ignore AC input using the Generator Assistant