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bladerunnervf avatar image
bladerunnervf asked

Solaredge with Multiplus-II 10k for East-West 8 to 10kWp system, expansion to South-East-West

Hi, my simple headline question is can I do this with Victron + Solaredge?


I hope I haven't missed the answer, I may not be searching with correct terminology for Victron systems, please redirect me if need be.


Planning a system presently, which I will get an installer to fit, however I wished to check in advance that this is feasible, if someone could assist please...


Thinking East-West system, possibility to extend to South-East-West

East : 10 panels, ~4.3 to 4.8kWp, concrete roof tile ~30deg pitch

West : 9/10 panels, ~3.8 to 4.8kWp, concrete roof tile ~30deg pitch

Future South - may fit 6-10 panels, wall mounted


I have some shading which the more I think about is drawing me towards a Solaredge based solution

East : shading factor ~0.90

West : shading factor ~0.82


PV inverter:-

For East-West : 2x strings, one from East, one from West into a Solaredge inverter, poss a 10kW HDwave

Later, for South add a second Solaredge inverter, poss a 5kW


Inverter:-

Victron Multiplus II 10kVA version, + cerbo GX and monitoring screen


Batteries:-

I know solaredge do 10kWh battery but at £6500 each it's expensive

- linked to the multiplus - starting 10 to 15 kWh, poss increasing to 30kWh

- Fogstar 15kWh rack is much cheaper than solaredge battery,

- or maybe several Pylontech US3000C / 5000C


Informal chat with the DNO suggest 8kW export would be likely to get a thumbs up, maybe more?


I used a freely available PV tool to draw something up, assuming 3x Pylontech US3000C. The tool may not take Victron features/capabilities into account or show where the CT should be?

capture-victron-10kva-solaredge.jpg


I see the most similar Victron diagram is the "grid-inline topology" from this link (forum won't let me attach a snip)

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-II-GX-inverter-charger-EN-.pdf

Q) would I be able to more battery to maybe 30kW like this ?

Q) would I be able to add more panels (South wall) by adding a second solaredge inverter, assuming a master-slave connection for the solaredge ?

Q) In by ignorance / naivety is there anything massively wrong with this approach ?


Thanks for taking a look






Multiplus-IIPylontechsolaredge
capture-victron-10kva-solaredge.jpg (39.1 KiB)
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4 Answers
nickdb avatar image
nickdb answered ·

The community tends to discourage design topics, as per our terms, and encourage users, especially for more complex systems to engage with their installer or a Victron supplier for professional advice.

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bladerunnervf avatar image
bladerunnervf answered ·

Whilst I can well understand a "we can't design it for you, it's your responsibility to use the professionals rather than take some bloke off the internet's word for it " sort of disclaimer, (funnily enough I nearly added a statement to say I would be talking to installers) I was hoping that being helpful by supplying sufficient background and context and hopefully clear diagrams for the question it might facilitate a response from other users such as "yeah I've done that, works really well", or "no devices x and y can't communicate, so it will ..."


I've just read the forum terms, perhaps I added too much context and made it look like a "multifaceted issues involving system design" type thread in order to make the question clear as I could.


At it's heart it's really just a can I use solaredge with Victron type of question...


hope this helps

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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw commented ·

Worth a read. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/venus-os:gx_solaredge

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bladerunnervf avatar image bladerunnervf ejrossouw commented ·
Thanks for the link :-)
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daniel-feist avatar image
daniel-feist answered ·

If you don't already have Solaredge inverter, using Victron MPPT's may be a more flexible/extensible approach. More efficient too as you don't go DC->AC->DC again when charging batteries from PV.

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sharpener avatar image sharpener commented ·
Yes +1 to that. Also 10.6 kWh of battery is quite small for a 10kVA inverter (as @nickdb told me when I was installing my original system - have now upgraded by 50%). And with your proposed configuration your solar inverter(s) will not work in a blackout.
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bladerunnervf avatar image
bladerunnervf answered ·

@Daniel Feist

Sadly I have nothing at the moment !

Agree about the victron MPPTs being flexible, it's a great mix and match system in principle


My main reason for enquiring about solaredge + victron compatibility is the shading question and trying to get the most out of the system, especially at the shoulders of the season and west facing evening summertime shading.


I don't know if the victron MPPTs are up to the job w.r.t. shadows and to warrant the extra expense vs Solaredge ?


I had understood the solaredge system would work better with shading / shadows as it MPPTs on each panel rather than MPPT on each string


shading factor East roof ~0.90, West roof ~0.82, South wall ~0.84


It's quite subtle though,

East side shading has two contributors -

i) tree to the east affecting 1st hr or so Apr-Aug, e.g. before 6am in June

ii) rooflines SE to SSW affecting Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb to about 9am

West side shading has two contributors -

i) a hard shading patch from gabled roof line end Nov to start Feb affecting 1 or 2 of 10 panels

ii) rooflines and tall trees from SW to WNW reduces autumn afternoon (starts 1430 mid-oct) and summer evenings, produces shadows moving across roof with sun path

South wall shading again has two contributors

i) rooflines SE to SSW affecting Sep-Mar (direct light only 1100-1300 on 25th Dec) maybe better if I can get panels higher up

ii) nearby tree to SW affecting Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. (2pm onwards at start Nov) and further trees and rooflines from SW to WNW


Solaredge Cost wise : £5500 for E-W, £6810 for S-E-W (excl panels)

Solaredge 10kW HDwave for East,West about £1700

+ 20x optimiser £1200

+ 0 x DC isolators £0

+ Victron Multiplus 48/10000/140-100 about £2600

= (1700+1200+2600) = £5500 for E-W,


Add South : £950 for 3.5kW HDwave + 6x optimiser £360 + 0 x DC isolators £0 = ~£1300,

=(1700+1200+2600+950+360) = £6810 for S-E-W

(hmm, need AC isolators before input to HDwave ?)



Victron Cost wise : £4760 for E-W, £5765 for S-E-W (excl panels, cables etc)

Victron 450/200 for East,West about £1500

+ Victron Multiplus 48/10000/140-100 about £2600

+ 4x DC isolators ~£120

+ Cerbo GX MkII £270 + Touch 70 screen £270 = £540

= (1500+2600+120) = ~£4220, + 540 = £4760 for E-W

(split panels into 5/5 East, 5/5 West to use all 4xMPPTs of the 450/200 ?)


South expand 6 panels 430W, maybe 9?? = Max £1005 for a MPPT 450/100

1x 450/100-Tr with 1p6s to 1p9s, but the startup voltage is ~160V according to MPPT calculator or 120V according to the datasheet (which correct?), not so good in winter? £935

+ DC isolator £35 + AC isolator £35 = £935 + £70 = £1005


Alternatively for south

1x MPPT150/70 with 2p3s or 2p4s (parallel good or bad for shading though?) ltd to 4000W OK £330

2x MPPT150/35 with 2x 1p3s = 2x £165 = £330 + 2x DC isolator £70 + 2x AC isolator £70= £470

1x MPPT150/45 with 2p3s (good or bad for shading though?) ltd to 2600W (433W each) Tight/No

A Vic 250/100 would need panel Voc < 38V to take 6 panels and allow for -10degC. Tight/no good


Victron total for S-E-W = £4760 + £1005 = £5765



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daniel-feist avatar image daniel-feist commented ·
If I were you I'd model victron and solaredge options in something like PV SOL, thats the only way you are going to get good answer in terms of relative generation amount and efficienes of the different approaches.


It will take you a while to model your roof and set everything up, and you'll need to model everything that is causing shading correctly, but it shoudl give you all the answers you want and more.

Else, just pick on approach and go with it.. the longer you deliberate, the longer it'll be before you can benefit from the system.

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bladerunnervf avatar image bladerunnervf daniel-feist commented ·
Thanks Daniel, I'd love to try PVSOL,

any idea how I get a fully functional copy without having to pay E1295 ?!!

I know there's a 30d free trial version but thought it needed company details and I'm just me trying to learn and whilst I like the idea of doing this sort of thing as a sideline I simply can't justify that amount!

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daniel-feist avatar image daniel-feist bladerunnervf commented ·
I used trial to test a few things. Other option is find an installer who has access to this software and is happy to model both options for you
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bladerunnervf avatar image bladerunnervf daniel-feist commented ·
Thanks for the info Daniel
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adrian-isp avatar image adrian-isp bladerunnervf commented ·

Hi mate.

I do have PVSOL Premium 2024 R4

if you need help with your system design let me know and I can help simulate it for you.

Regards.

Adrian

<<personal information moderated to prevent spam. Please don't publish company information or links, which could be interpreted as spam and result in deletion or suspension, thank you>>

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