I have a Multiplus 12/3000/120-50 Inverter/Charger that makes a fluttering sound when it's inverting about every 40 seconds when my Keurig Coffee Maker is ON.
Any ideas why this happens. TIA.
asked
Multiplus flutters with coffee maker
My Multiplus 24/3000 will do the same with a 400 watt load on it. If the load is more or less it will go away. My noise is not the fan.
Attached, please find a sound file that I recorded with my iPhone.ClickingNoise.m4a
mine does the same thing with my keurig plugged in-- funny your post is from 2 years ago and the problem still persists- i narrowed it down by unplugging each appliance until that same noise quit. when it did happen the voltage dropped to 117 from 120 every 30 seconds it would make that growl sound
The problem os not the Victron but the appliances use of a triac for speed control.
Just google triac and nespresso and you will find a replacement board with the device on it. The veey operation of a triac is to chop the frequency of the AC sine wave.
Any device using this for speed control from washing machines to air conditioners, hair dryers and various other appliances cause this issue. The problem exists even on other inverters. So the conclusion is not a Victron problem but an appliance mode of operation problem.
It may be just the fan in the MP turning at a higher speed when the coffee maker turns its internals (e.g. heating element) on. The fan speed changes depending on load.
To me, that sounds like relay chatter.
My Nespresso doesn’t like the frequency shift from the multi, specifically the water pump. It will barely pump any water, turning on a load or switching off the fronius allows the frequency to drop then it functions fine. I have also heard the relay flutter once or twice.
My guess is that it has something to do with the uneven current draw of the vibrating pump inside the coffee machine. https://youtu.be/we9IZJ5tQFs
These pumps generally only draw current on the positive side of the AC waveform.
As to what’s going on in the relay/multi that would be best answered by someone at victron.
The coffee machine is the only thing I have ever had any trouble running on my system, and generally when I want coffee in the morning the frequency shift hasn’t kicked in yet.
The recording is similar to the noise I hear from my unit. I did a test and am pretty sure it is coming from the fan function (whether its the fan itself or something in the electrical path).
Tested by adding the silent fan assistant via VEConfig. When I did it, the fan didn't start up and neither did the clicking sound. I kept an eye on this for close to an hour - no clicking sound at all (normally I would expect to hear the clicking sound intermittently).
I speculate its coming from the fan being PWM'd, and in particular at low duty cycles there's some odd interaction between the PWM waveforms and the fan, causing the sound. I hear the clicking when the unit is just starting up cold (fan being spun at lower RPMs presumably). Then it becomes sporadic. When the fan is going full-bore I don't hear it - again presumably at 100% DC the fan is just on, not being PWM'd.
This also fits in with other comments indicating that its not typical. The interaction is likely to be quite specific to the actual fan in the unit (maybe different mfg, different batch etc).
If anyone else that hears the clicking noise also have VEConfig on hand, would be interesting if you did a test and report back :)
That's an interesting observation.
The fan doesn't just turn on with a temperature condition, it turns on at certain inverter power levels too. Certain appliances use horrid half-wave rectifiers which will cause havoc as there will be a high power demand on only one half of the output waveform. This could well confuse the control loop for the fan's PWM control.
I would rule out being the fan.
My guess is that those loads create too much wave distortion/harmonics for the unit to coupe with, probably, there's also some lights flickering (AC out) when the inverter makes that noise.
Just a note to say my friend uses a Nespresso and I haven’t noticed an issue. I think his is a 48V 5000.
I have a Nespresso and it cycles the heating element rapidly to maintain the temperature. I'd originally had issues with the Multi Compact keeping up with the load change (1200 watts to 0 watts). My last trip in my RV the problem did seem better than before. I did NOT hear the clicking noise reported by others.
Devices that draw currents on only one half of the waveform do place a strain on inverters in general. Many have reported problems with heat guns on the low setting when using them as a test load.
I don't think the water pump in a coffee maker draws enough current (even if it's on only one half of the AC waveform) to cause issues.
Testing yesterday, I can confirm that a new coffee maker (Keurig) does not cause the inverter to make this noise. A hairdryer on high does not make the noise but switching to low the inverter does begin to make the noise. The question still remains exactly what inside the inverter is making this noise and could it cause damage over time to the invert?
Hair driers often use a diode to reduce power do only draw power from one half of the sine wave. This represents a load which varies every 1/120 of a second (or 1/100 for 50 Hz).
Some coffee makers do a similar thing at a much slower rate, say several times a second.
The transformer inside the Multi/Quatro is most likely what is making the noise.
As for damage, Victron would need to provide that information.
Kevin, thanks for the information. I would love to get direct feedback from Victron, but it appears they do not provide any support directly, only through distributors and currently I am not getting any help from that route. The last suggestion they had was to make sure there is nothing loose inside the unit. Not a terribly helpful response! If you or anyone else here on the community can let me know if it is at all possible to get help from Victron direct please let me know how to do that.
This forum is the best place to ask for guidance. Victron staff visit here often.
One further bit of information. The clicking noise also happens when the microwave is running, the microwave is an older unit about 15 years old. More strangely when running the air conditioning unit which is a 3-year-old Dometic 12,000 BTU unit, it also makes this clicking sound.
