question

klohre avatar image
klohre asked

Alternator and DC to DC charger

Hi

Is it possible to connect an Orion TR Smart DC to DC charger directly to an alternator and then to a lithium battery bank in a boat?

I do know that the often recommended solution is to connect via the start battery and/or installing an external regulator.

So those suggestions and other suggestions as to why I want this solution is not relevant.

I only would like to know if it is possible or not. If not, why?

I have tried to reach out to several Victron distributors, seen several online videos (reputable like Jeff Cote) and in particular the online webinar from Victron 22 Jan 2021.

In the latter there is a drawing (at 19:45) that indicates that it is possible, but the voice-over is not fully clear to med.

Hope someone could help, much appreciated!


Best regards

Kai

orion dc-dcalternator
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3 Answers
klim8skeptic avatar image
klim8skeptic answered ·

1, The Orion smart is a battery to battery charger.

2, An alternator will provide rectified, unfiltered DC output, from an AC source. Might not be the ideal input for the Orion,

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klohre avatar image klohre commented ·

Thanks!

Techically it is a DC to DC charger so I assumed, wrongly, that the source of DC input would be irrelevant.

I did not know that the DC input from an alternator would be rectified and unfiltered and hence not suited as an input to the Orion.

Appreciate the feedback!!

Kai

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neptuneuk avatar image
neptuneuk answered ·

@Klohre The following Victron blog post announcing the Orion product line explicitly refers to Alternator to Battery charging and the diagram display seems to fit your use case: https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2019/10/10/new-product-orion-tr-smart-dc-dc-charger/

However it does specifically make reference to smart alternators and dual battery systems.

You would need to satisfy yourself that your use case fits the technical requirements and limmitations of the Orion TR DC-DC.

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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·
That's specific about dual battery systems with alternators charging the start battery aand the Orion charging the house battery from starter. In effect the starter battery is proving the smoothing/filtering function mentioned by @klim8skeptic



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Bob K avatar image
Bob K answered ·

@docker38 I'm a little confused about what components are at 12V and what components are at 24V in your system. It sounds like you think you need to make a 12v to 24v conversion or vice versa. I'm just not clear on which way you're looking to convert.

In your setup, is the alternator that you wish to connect to also connected to a battery? If so, then connecting to the + stud on the alternator or the + stud on its associated battery is electrically the same: The + wire from the battery to the alternator is, in effect, just an extension cord.

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docker38 avatar image docker38 commented ·
Basicaly I have a 24V house system, 12V starter batteries are a different circuit and completely separatet from the house system and are not in scope. The 24V house system is charged trough solar and a 24V alternator. As I'm replacing the lead acid house bank with a 24V LFP bank, my concern is with the existing internal regulated 24V alternator and all the issues/risks it has, charging LFP batteries. I'm now looking for a technical solution which match with the existing equipment, instead of quite pricy alternatives, like Balmar etc.. So my question is, can my existing internal regulated 24V alternator be connected directly to a Orion 24-24 DC-DC charger, which then goes to the batteries. If I understand the manual correctly, this would limit the output current from my alternator to a steady value, regardless e.g. the RPM of the engine. What intrigues me is, all the graphics in the Victron manuals show no direct connection. That's the reason of my question.
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Bob K avatar image Bob K docker38 commented ·

"So my question is, can my existing internal regulated 24V alternator be connected directly to a Orion 24-24 DC-DC charger, which then goes to the batteries."

If the 24V alternator output is within the specs listed for the 24V DC Charger, then yes. In other words, if the alternator outputs DC voltage that is within the DC input voltage range of the DC charger and if the alternator is capable of comfortably outputting more current than the DC charger will draw, then the DC charger will work great. Indeed, that is the exact purpose of the DC charger. You'll set the parameters in the DC charger to properly charge your lithium batteries with the correct charging algorithm.

If there is currently a direct connection between your 24V alternator and the 24V house batteries, then you would break that connection and stick the 24V DC charger in it: alternator --> DC charger --> house batteries. This would ensure that the charge going into your new lithium batteries is controlled solely by the smart & healthy DC charger algorithm and that charge isn't bypassing the DC charger through a separate direct connection to the batteries.

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docker38 avatar image docker38 Bob K commented ·
Cooll, thank you for your reply. very helpful.

So, my alternator has a max output of 50a and the Orion 24/24-17 has a max output of 17a that should work, I could even go with a 2nd Orion in parallel to double the output to 34a (as my house bank has a capacity of 460a).

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