Will the Multiplus 11 conform to the updated AS/NZ 4777.2:2020 Standard?
Has it been submitted for CEC approval?
Trying to plan out some jobs as the deadline is approaching in the December.
Thanks
asked
Multiplus 11 AS.NZ 4777.2:2020 Approval
Bump - I would also like to know what the answer is from Victron as I'm already reviewing jobs for next year using the MultiPlus-II inverter/charger. @Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager)
Hi Victron,
Can you please clarify your letter stating that Victron Inverters will drop off the CEC approved inverter list after December 18 2020?
You state this is due to difficulty complying with AS 4777.2 2020
Non compliance with AS 4777 should only effect Grid connected Multimodal inverters ie. multiplus 2
Non compliance with AS 4777 does not effect accreditation of Victron inverters as "Stand alone inverters with AC Generator Input"
Will you be seeking accreditation of Multiplus and Quatro inverter/chargers under this Stand Alone CEC Inverter category? If so when do you expect this accreditation to be complete?
Please clarify ASAP as this directly effects Australian Installers of your product?
Kind Regards Paul
@Pauloreilly77 Which letter are you referring too? Can you provide me with a link?
Hi Damovic, I would recommend talking to Craig Murry from Victron in Australia
But my understanding is that approval of multiplus 2 for AS4777 is now unlikely but Victron has clarified they will be seeking offgrid approval with CEC
Cheers Paul
I have been waiting for Victron AS4777.2:2020 CEC listing for a MPII project commenced at the end of 2021 when I was informed that Victron would be accredited nominally by end of Q1 2022. Our marketing team was advised by one of our battery manufacturers that Victron have done AS4777 testing in Europe and have SA approval (whatever that means) and have now lodged an application with CEC. Suggested in May that another month would pass before CEC approval would be obtained. It's now August 2022 and nothing has changed.
Victron themselves, informed us that:
"We cannot meet the Voltage ride through requirements because our Multi’s are a UPS. We cannot guarantee power into the loads connected to output should it need to ride through a low voltage event.
Unfortunately, We don’t have a timeline to give you when or even if we will modify our systems just for this requirement – so no time soon.
Perhaps discuss with [your grid provider], the possibility of exemption based on the nature of our Multi’s. They are not a typical grid tie inverter?
Alternatively, a consideration is using the Ziehl relay we supply to satisfy this requirement.
https://www.victronenergy.com.au/upload/documents/Ziehl-Voltage-&-Frequency-relay-UFR1001E.pdf"
Our grid provider advised that using the grid protection relay does not achieve the VDRT requirement of AS4777.2:2020. That capability can only be provided in the inverter itself.
Subsequent to the above correspondence, Victron advised
"Any updates regarding AS4777.2 approval is communicated with our dealers.
Please direct all your emails to [your dealer] and not [Victron]. It is the responsibility of our dealers to handle all enquiries from their customers. This allows us to answer all emails in a timely manner."
Needless to say, our Victron dealer knows less about this issue than we do and has not been able to obtain any progress in the issue to date.
Our battery manufacturer is in the process of testing and approving alternate inverter manufacturer's products, but these have also yet to be accredited by CEC for AS 4777.2:2020 compliance.
Regards
Alan Carmody.
Would it make any sense for Victron to shoot for a "solution" that allowed use of the MultiPlus2 as the "Stand-Alone Inverter AC Grid Input" and somehow have a "special" Aus firmware build (or something) that prevents export of power (ie one-way power flow into the MultiPlus)? Or is that not even feasible?
Quite frankly - no small installation (<30kW) should care about losing the terrible feed-in tariff from exporting (in Australia).
Achieving "Stand-Alone Inverter AC Grid Input - xxx" then only requires complaince with AS4777.2 Appendix M. Or does that not help use here (sorry - don't have the std accessible)?
It is way more valuable to have the grid backup feature than the feed-in tariff (after all, the only reason we stay connected to the grid now is the other way around - ie to have the grid be a backup to my battery-PV system so I don't need a genset or a way oversized system).
Actually - wouldn't the AC #2 (genset) be an acceptable connection to the Grid that they could get approval for (ie approved for connection via AC2)? Or is that not a truly isolated input and would still require a disconnect mechanism?
Such a shame that this Australian approvals system is so limiting and about the only choice I have left now for my design is the Selectronic (4 models approved).
Did you ever get an answer to your suggestion regarding Victron going for "Stand-Alone Inverter with AC Grid Input" CEC approval - Not sure if I'm missing something, but without this level of CEC approval wouldn't it mean that Multiplus II may not be connected to mains supply even for just charging or pass-thru consumption (which would exclude their use in many/most RV and marine applications)?
Also, why doesn't the protection provided via ESS + Country Code (None = no feed-in allowed) satisfy the requirements for the CEC approval?
...Or is this, perhaps, just an unintended consequence of the drafting of the wording in AS4777:2 ?
Many thanks
Please see response back from the CEC to Victron in relation to their application for grid connect :
AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 was written/developed with a new clause/Appendix for stand-alone inverters that can connect to the grid and draw power from the grid and but not export.
The CEC listing offers 2 options for:
- Stand-alone inverter with grid input
- Stand-alone inverter with generator input
To qualify for the Stand-alone inverter with grid input – the inverter needs to be certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 Appendix M which was specifically written for stand alone inverter with ac grid input. Otherwise if the inverter has not been certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 Appendix M, then the inverter is approved as stand-alone inverter with generator input, in which the AC input port should only be connected to a generator and not the grid.
Manufacturers are allowed to choose which of the 2 categories they would like the inverter to be approved as long as the correct certification documents are submitted during the application process.
If Victron does not wish to have the stand-alone inverters certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020, Victron can select the Stand-alone inverter with generator input - this will require an appropriate statement advising that for AU market for fixed household energy storage installations, the AC input port cannot be connected to the grid and only to an generator.
Please note that in Australia, the compliance of inverters to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 is monitored by the CEC with our product compliance and testing program, Grid Operators that the inverters connect to, AEMO - the Australia Energy Market Operator, and Electrical Safety Regulators (who have inspectors to carry out site inspections).
Kind Regards,
An additional comment from my local Victron distributor is: "Victron is not tested to AS4777.2.2020 Appendix M and it is highly unlikely that they will be."
Conclusion is that Victron have made a marketing decision to not compete in the Australian Grid Tied ESS market.
