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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image
mvader (Victron Energy) asked

New VictronConnect feature soon: stored trends

UPDATE 2022-05-09: this feature is - finally - back in beta. A new post was made, please continue feedback & discussion there: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/127047/back-in-beta-stored-trends-for-smartshunt-solar-ch.html



=========== OLD TEXT ============
We're currently beta testing a new feature in VictronConnect, its internally dubbed "Stored trends".

Let me explain what that is:

You might be familiar with the trend tab in VictronConnect, that lets you look at Voltage, Current, Watts or other readings over time:

1628587158300.jpeg


Which is a great feature, but always had a rather frustrating limitation which is that all that data wasn't retained in memory. The graph started plotting when you connect; and would be gone as soon as you disconnect.

No more!

In a series of firmware updates, we've improved our products (SmartSolar chargers, BMV 712, SmartShunts, Smart Battery Sense) to retain the data in non-volatile memory. Meaning that its stored, also during a loss of power, or disconnection from the battery.

The data is recorded at a 30 minute interval; and the amount of days recorded is approximately 46 days, except for the Smart Battery Sense: that one has 181 days (!) of storage. The reason for that one having so much more days is that it has far less different readings to store. See the VictronConnect change log for details on which parameters are stored and in what interval.


Note that this only works when connecting to the Victron product over Bluetooth. This -unfortunately- does not work when connected via a VE.Direct USB cable. And (therefore), these trends will not work on a Windows device, since those can only connect using the VE.Direct USB cable.


The question to you

I'm writing this post to look for some people to help test this, and get feedback on how to further improve this.

Welcome to put your thoughts, including just a thumbs up if your happy with this! in an answer below.

In a next beta, we'll add plotting the power, which is calculated from volts & amps, as a plottable trend.

The other thing we're already working on, for a release later this year, is to have the phone store the information; so that upon a reconnection you get all data; and also to be able to access the trends data, as well as settings or other data, when no longer close to the Victron device.


How to install and test this

Currently not available


What about other products?

We'll be adding stored trends to (most) other products as well, in the coming time. Which product will get this at all depends mostly on available resources (memory) in the microcontrollers; and when a certain product will get this depends on the various time & release plans, and I don't have any details for that at the moment.


Looking forward to your thoughts!

Best regards, Matthijs

VictronConnect
1628587158300.jpeg (312.4 KiB)
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spirou avatar image spirou commented ·

All I can say is: finally!

Will test when I can

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frangar avatar image frangar commented ·
The Mac OS app doesn't seem to link properly from dropbox...just an empty page. Id rather install on Mac than iOS in case of issues I need to revert. Can you check files? Many Thanks
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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ frangar commented ·
Hi @Frangar thank you. the developer is on holiday; will be fixed next week.
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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi all. An update: this week we released a new beta version of VictronConnect, with a few improvements:

1) Solar chargers now store and show the PV power (Watts) for the trends

2) In the trends for the BMV and the Smartshunt, power has been added to the dropdown

3) Loading of the trend data when connecting as well as reconnecting has been improved.

4) more minor things, see beta changelog for details.


we did have to have a clean start on the solar chargers, meaning that the trend data will be erased when you connect with this new firmware. We won’t easily decide to such drastic measures once all this is official functionality, but now it was the best option.

So: please test the new version, and let me know what you think in an answrr below.

Thank you! Matthijs

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Ash Win avatar image Ash Win commented ·
I will test this.
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craigb9554 avatar image craigb9554 commented ·
This is a great change, thanks! Could you make the recording interval user selectable? Making it shorter than 30 minutes would allow looking at shorter term trends.
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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Hi all, a short update: yesterday we released a new beta in which we removed the trends and its related new firmware version.


The reason is that there are a few more things we want to add to that firmware version, both related to trends as well a something else related to bluetooth connection issues. So, in order to not make for unnecessary firmware updates, we decided to delay the release of the stored trends feature.

To keep working with the trends, hold on to the beta you’re now using: 5.48-beta-3. Also thats still available for download.

In a week orso we’ll release 5.48 official, and then resume trends testing with 5.49-beta-1.

Thank you for all your feedback. As usual, its really invaluable in getting features at their best.

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helix avatar image helix commented ·
I was testIng the new beta version V5.49. last week, the Victron SmartShunt stopped to display the stored data. It was working fine since 2 months. I try with the new official released version On Android and still no display stored data. Only live data as it was in last version. Any ideas?
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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ helix commented ·
The trend feature from the beta is not jet implemented in the official release version 5.49.
Look in the changelogs.
If. You want to use it you have to use the old beta version.
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helix avatar image helix Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·
Thanks. But don't find the beta version anymore. My firmware is V4.08, is it the last one? Looks update.
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18 Answers
mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image
mvader (Victron Energy) answered ·

Hi all,

A short update: we’re still working in the trends feature. And meanwhile had and still have to make other releases.

Meaning that right now there is no version available with the trends feature. Also no beta version.

Its not where we wanted to be, and trust me we’re working hard on getting it working great. Its one of the most significant firmware updates / VictronConnect features that is underway - so also on our side we’re anxious to get it finished and available.

But that will still take quite while. First beta with trends again will be somewhere late January, or February even.

All the best, Matthijs

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michelg avatar image
michelg answered ·

Hi Matthijs, sounds great ! Are the BMV-70X getting also a firmware update in order to be compatible with the new feature ?

Thanks, Michel

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Hi Michel, no sorry. The data is stored in the bluetooth controller, as that comes with plenty memory. And the BM70x has no bluetooth controller. We might he able to add it into the BLE dongle, but I do see some caveats there so whatever happens its quite low on the list I’m afraid.
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taylortops avatar image
taylortops answered ·

I would like to help test this too.

Have you considered a simple data compression scheme?

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

Hey Taylertops, I'm not sure if that was considered, one thing making it difficult is the combination of having to rotate, reduce flash cycles and not knowing when a device might loose power. That last one meaning that you can't store the data to flash only once a day.


The current status of this is that the genericmechanism as well as data transfer and visualisation seems to work well. And we found we made a mistake in the trend storage for the solar chargers, storing Amps and Volts rather than Watts and Volts. A new test version that fixes that will be released in the coming weeks.

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R Robinson avatar image
R Robinson answered ·

I just got my Smart Shunt installed today, are you looking for rank amateur? I would be willing to help if I can! Thanks, Bob.

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Hi and welcome. All feedback is welcome. See text above for how to install the beta.
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nickdb avatar image
nickdb answered ·

@mvader (Victron Energy) The Mac image seems to be 12K so doesn't unpack the dmg. Happy to test but the image seems broken. Thanks

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
hi nickdb, thanks, noted. The developer for this is on holiday: will be fixed next week.
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frangar avatar image
frangar answered ·

Ive tried upgrading the Smart Battery Sense using the beta Mac OS app from 1.05 to 1.08 but it repeatedly gets to 21% and stops...I then have to use the old app V5.47 to reinstall 1.05 firmware. Can this be looked at as I fear I might brick the unit if I continue. I haven't tried the update on the Smart Solar unit yet as I dont want to cause further upset to the system. Many Thanks

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
I'll send you an email
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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

I would like to see this added to GX devices also. There is already storage but it is only used for VRM when it is offline. Retaining this data would allow graphing of information locally without the need for VRM. There is more storage so samples more often than 30 minutes would be possible. I log VRM at the minimum interval.

Because storage would be used all the time in stead of just when VRM is offline, you'd probably need to truncate the history as the memory device fills up.

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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

Take a look at Grafana

https://github.com/victronenergy/venus-docker-grafana


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gainestr avatar image
gainestr answered ·

I've seen the future plans to add power(Watts) to the charts. I'm looking forward to that added capability. What about a way to export the data? I like being able to see the data in 30 second increments for the past two hours to get precise graphing but then it drops the data to 5 minute intervals. If we had the option of exporting the data, then we could at least collect a charge cycle or other longer interval event with more accuracy by exporting out to a CSV file and parsing out the data we want.

Along with exporting data, another greatly needed option would be to give a user an option to just use 30 minute, 5 minute, 30 second or even 1 second intervals for the purpose of accurately tracking data from their device for troubleshooting purposes. I realize that this would either shorten or lengthen the default storage capacity date range but a person could always reset the option to use the default setting for optimal data tracking. Some people may prefer to store only 30 second intervals even if it means that they will only get ~23 hours of data storage or ~45 minutes with a 1 second interval.

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wkirby avatar image wkirby ♦♦ commented ·
Hi frequency storage intervals introduce problems with the flash memory. Frequent write cycles will degrade the flash memory more quickly. There are usually only roughly a million write cycles guaranteed for the flash memory. One second intervals would soon ruin the flash very quickly.

This is the reason for the write cycles being less frequent for older records. The recent more frequent records can be written to other areas of flash memory, a method known as flash cycling to avoid writing to the same bit over and over and then wearing it out.

I think, even if presented with a warning, people still wouldn't understand why their flash memory is burned out after 11.5 days (one million seconds) when writing at 1 second intervals.

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gainestr avatar image gainestr wkirby ♦♦ commented ·
Thank you very much for explaining this. You are completely correct. I wouldn’t want that at all. Now you have me wondering if we should have an option to enable or disable logging all together? Do you have any idea of how long it would take, under these default logging settings, to “burn out” the flash memory? It sounds like I may want to consider using a GX device or even a raspberry pi running Venus OS for logging if this is a concern.
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mrhappy avatar image mrhappy gainestr commented ·

if 1/S = 11.5 days then 1/30S = 345 days or less than one year....

Can I downgrade the firmware? I like the function very much but if it will burn the flash memory in my BMV in one year that is a dealbreaker for me...

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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ mrhappy commented ·
The currently default it every 30 minutes.

Not sure if it is enough to just install the normal VictronConnect version. Maybe you also have to also download the old FW from Victron professional.

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·
Hey all, there is no need to worry about burning the flash memory. I don’t remember the design life by heart, but its really long; 20 or even 30 years. We don’t work on our products with the idea that they’ll be scrapped within 5 or 10 years.
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mrhappy avatar image mrhappy mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Thanks for clarifying!
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gainestr avatar image gainestr mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Yes, Thanks for putting us at ease with your answer. Are there any plans for an export option? Wouldn’t this be easy to implement if you have plans to allow our phone or computer, running VictronConnect, to store the data internally anyway?
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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ gainestr commented ·
Hi, in some time, there will be an export option; yes. as well as storing the data on the phone, so that everytime when you connect; data gets added to the data already stored in the phone.
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nickdb avatar image
nickdb answered ·

@mvader (Victron Energy) the build seems to have issues on Big Sur. I had some difficulty getting it authorised from VRM, now that it is logged in, no devices are discovered.

screenshot-2021-09-03-at-104709.png


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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
After restarting it a couple of times, it came right.
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R Robinson avatar image
R Robinson answered ·

From a totally novice perspective, all I can say is WOW! This is exactly what I have been looking for. I don’t know what it all means, but it helps me to understand what is going on in my system. I can’t wait to upgrade my solar controller so I can get an even bigger picture! Thanks!

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huviolan avatar image
huviolan answered ·

Hi.

I am testing the beta version, mainly ineterested in the new feature of keeping the loging of the data. I had installed the cell phone apk and the windows version too, both related to the smartShunt baterry monitor.

What I had notice is that when you reconnect the app in the cell phone, some times the logging starts just from that moment, not showing any of the data logued before, and other times, just going back and forth with the time increment/decrement keys, suddenly all the previous data apperars in the trend.

The question is...is that the way it should be?? is there an special way to make the old data appear, Any gesture or setting?? Maybe i am just not doing the right thing..

In the windows version, is even worst the problem, because after closing the program and opening it again, some times you never can get the data back.... (again..is any special key/function/setting/keyboard combination not documented for retrieving the data logued??)

And finally...Is not clear for me how or where in the program set the amount of samples to keep, (or period to store) acording the info in the change log of the Beta version :


"BMV-712 and SmartShunt store Battery voltage, Current, State of Charger % as well as the Aux input (battery temp, or mid voltage, or starter battery voltage).

Interval configuration is equal for above products, and in detail is:

2m at 1s interval (RAM only)

2h at 30s interval

1d at 5m interval

45d at 30m interval"

Can please anybody explain it to me?


Thanks in advance for any help, and excuse the long post...and my english

Hugo

Bs As

Argerntina

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Hi Hugo, the loading of the trend data upon connection works better in the new beta. Could you install that and let me know if it works more intuitive now?


With regards to the amount of samples to keep: that is not configurable.

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huviolan avatar image huviolan mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

Thanks a lot for your answer MVader! I am gonna install the new beta and let you know how does it feel (regarding to functioning and intuitiveness)

Regards from Argentina.

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huviolan avatar image huviolan mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Hi Mvader, after some days testing the beta2 version of Victron Connect, and as I promise regarding your request, I have a good and a bad new.


Tha good one...the android version is working very well. All the previous data is retrieved with no problem.

The bad one: the windows version (the one I actually was expecting ti work really ok) is not retrieving the loged data after closing and opening the program again (I am using win 10 32bits in an acer notebook) . When the program starts there isn´t any difference with the beta 1 version. Not any label indicating the loading of the previuosly logged data like the one that apperas in the android version. Cpuld you please submit this bug to the developing team?? thanks a lot!

Regards from Argentina

Hugo


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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ huviolan commented ·
Hi Hugo, yes thats something I should have mentioned in the announcement: this datalogging is tied to the bluetooth. It doesn’t work over the serial connection.


Making it work over the serial link is quite an effort, due to the internal architecture - having two microcontrollers -, and not something we’re working at at the moment.

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huviolan avatar image huviolan mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Well, that´s really dissapointing!! Y specially bought the USB cable to leave a dedicated notebook dataloging to be able later to analyse the trends at the week ends, when I go to the house powered only by solar energy. I think you people shoud offer same functionality in all the conection posibilities. I hope you dedicate some time and effort to get the same benefits in all of the connection versions. Please!


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pmikep avatar image
pmikep answered ·

v5.4 beta 3.

Seems to be working fine on my SmartSolar. My only complaint is that there's no persistence for the Trend characteristics that I am watching. For example, I set mine to watch Solar Power and Battery Current, only to have them be reset to "None" when the App reconnects. (Android.)

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pmikep avatar image pmikep commented ·
I don't know how it happened, but now, after a few days, the selected Trends persist.
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dvgibson avatar image dvgibson commented ·
Mine are not persisting, yet. Just installed yesterday. I'll keep checking.
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pmikep avatar image pmikep commented ·

The new Trend feature has worked fine until this week. It's been two weeks since I installed beta 3. Now the Trends will not display, and my BT connection keeps trying to reconnect.

I rebooted my phone. No Change.

I see that beta 4 is out now, putting the Trend feature on Hold for a while until these bugs can be fixed.

Wise.

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ pmikep commented ·

Hi @pmikep , thank you for the report. We’re not aware of any bug like that in the trends, it was put on hold because we wanted to add one more feature to it (store the time/date from the phone in the trend-series if connected, to pinpoint a series in time) and fix a bug that made the clock that times the trend run a little bit too fast.


Are you sure you have a bug related to the trends? Or can it be a connection issue; that “could” be related to the trends, but also could also not be related at all?

Please describe a bit more what you’re seeing: ie are you not able to connect to the device at all? Or does it loose the connection when tapping the trends tab? Or..?

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pmikep avatar image pmikep mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
Now I wish I had made a video to show you.

Here are the details:

Nothing changed with any of my hardware. I have a SmartPhone that I use only to view VictronConnect. It is not connected to Cellular Service, and it only rarely connects to WiFi. (That is, no OS update.)

Nothing changed with my MPPT after the initial firmware update from beta 3.

I had been able to connect and watch the Trends data populate until the last time I tried it, which was sometime late last week.

Now when I tried to view Trends, the two characteristics I had set (Solar Power & Battery Current) had set themselves to "Nothing."

I got a toast about "Fetching Trend data." (Or words to that effect.) The toast never went away. And the data never appeared.

After about 30 seconds to a minute of this, the BT connection would say, from inside Victron Connect, that it was "resetting." (Or "retrying." I can't remember.)

This loop appeared to continue indefinitely.

I tried disabling/re-enabling my BT connection (and Location) on my phone. No Change.

I rebooted my phone. No Change.

The last thing (or the next to last thing) that I recall doing with the Trend stuff is that I had clicked on the center "button" that gave me a vertical dashed line which also showed the date of where I was on the graph.

I should have known better as a beta tester to take a video of this problem. But I thought that others had been reporting disconnects, so I thought that you already knew about it.

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ pmikep commented ·
Hi @pmikep , video is always best indeed; but that's a good recollection; we'll look at it.
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pmikep avatar image pmikep mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
It occurs to me that I can load beta 3 again. I might try that later in the week. (I might have to travel today.)
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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ pmikep commented ·
Hi @pmikep , we'll send you an email.
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pmikep avatar image pmikep mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
I'm back. I was going to try beta 3 again, but I see that the beta's are no longer on the Release Page. (If I had been smart, I would have re-downloaded it to my phone.)

So, yes, please send me a download link via email.

Tnx.


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mkuiken avatar image mkuiken pmikep commented ·

Hi @pmikep ,

I've send you an email with the download link for beta3.

Also, some days ago I've also send you an email with some additional questions.

If you've not seen both emails you might wanna check your spam folder.

BR

Martijn

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dvgibson avatar image
dvgibson answered ·

I would really like to test this feature but do not understand how to install the beta on my Pixel phone. I find a download, but how do I get that to the phone and installed? Thanks for any help you can provide.

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mrhappy avatar image mrhappy commented ·

maybe this is helpful:

https://androidforums.com/threads/pixel-2-xl-how-to-install-an-apk.1209670/

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dvgibson avatar image dvgibson mrhappy commented ·
Thanks! Exactly what I needed.
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R Robinson avatar image
R Robinson answered ·

Has this test ended? I may have missed something, I did see where history had been disabled. Really hoping Victron continues with this APP upgrade, I believe it makes their products much more useful and valuable. Thanks.

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corby avatar image
corby answered ·

It appears the latest build with stored trends [build 5.48 (4) for iOS/iPadOS] will be expiring on December 12. Can the expiration date be extended or another build with the feature be provided? It’s a great feature!


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kenf150 avatar image
kenf150 answered ·

Is this test going on still? I would love to try it. I downloaded the manual for teh smartshunt online, and it included this feature (the history), but my device firmware seems to be up to date according to the connect app, and I don't have it. If it works like you describe above, it would be a great feature (although maybe shorter day length and updates at 15 minute frequency would be nice).

thank you


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mogal avatar image
mogal answered ·

When is the 712 smart getting this 'Stored Trends'?

Been waiting for two years now.

I am so disappointed with the features and performance of the 712 smart with a $300 price tag.

I have since bought another monitor for $60 that is far superior to what this 712 is. comes with a full color screen, bluetooth, persistent trending data, has built in relay control, a great looking display, both on the screen and in the app. The monitor and display only consumes 0.9 watts of power. the screen does NOT need to be used (Can all be done in bluetooth app - then it only uses 0.4 watts)

This new monitor is what the 712 should have been, and it's only $60 bucks!

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inmyimage avatar image inmyimage commented ·
What device are you using?
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teddysx3 avatar image
teddysx3 answered ·

Hello everyone,

Is there a way I can export the trends from the smart shunt to a file?

I couldn't find how to do it via the smart shunts settings...

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