Low battery warning continuaslly appeare on Quattro while SOC is high?!

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy asked Nov 13, '18

Low battery warning continuaslly appeare on Quattro while SOC is high?!

Using Quattro 5000 / 120 V with an updated firmware and ESS assistant for a 48V system.

We are facing the problem of while having a high AC load and there are no available solar Energy inputs so we are running purely on batteries "having ALWAYS a low battery warning LED flashing - and of course on the CCGX- even that the SOC of the battery from the BMV is higher than 90% and the voltage is ok as well"

is there a way to avoid this wrong indicator on the inverter?
- Taking into account that the ESS settings for the dynamic battery control is modified already based on our battery type and the low voltage alarm reseat value for the inverter is set to 3 V (instead of 1.2 V default).
In case we have to live with this fake warning, How can we avoid getting this warning on the CCGX?

Appreciate your advice

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Charger ESS low battery warning

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ahmadoof commented · Nov 15, 2018 at 01:37 AM

hello,

you can change the value of DC input low pre-alarm to a lower value. so you won't have the led indicator blinking while your battery is still higher than 50%(please check the attached image)!

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community-victron.png (41.5 KiB)

Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy commented · Nov 16, 2018 at 08:47 AM

Hello Ahmadoof, thanks for the input.

But we are using ESS assistant, and as I understood this DC input low pre-alarm value is OVERWRITTEN by the ESS assistant in that case, so it doesn't have any function.

Are you using an ESS assistant as well?

Beside that our battries never get to this value level of 43.6 Volts

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ahmadoof Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy commented · Nov 16, 2018 at 07:06 PM

Hello Mohammed,

the value 43.60 is the default value. moreover, this value just triggers an visual alarm.

i've tried the ESS assistant and it does not change the value from the default.

if the pre-alarm annoys you. you can set the value to any low value. it won't affect the operation of the system

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy ahmadoof commented · Nov 20, 2018 at 11:03 AM

I will test it and give a feedback on the effects then, thanks

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy commented · Dec 19, 2018 at 12:35 PM

unfortunately, this recommendation doesn't change anything regarding the warning especially while using ESS.

The main factor is within the ESS cut-off voltage settings. But still modifying it doesn't change much of having the warning sign on High SOC

SO the problem still exist!

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy answered · Aug 20, 2019 at 09:47 PM

The final conclusion I got to solve this issue is that using ESS with Hybrid li-ion + lead-acid system in off-grid application is causing more problems than helping the system performance.

So we did deactivate it and used the other assistant functions to protect having the best battery performance.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Aug 20, 2019 at 10:48 PM

Hi Mohamed,

As in all documentation, and as we tried to explain to you numerous times: ESS is not intended for off-grid systems.

But: the problems you describe are caused by mis-configuration, as I and others have tried to explain more than once.

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Aug 21, 2019 at 07:52 PM

Thanks, Daniel,

We do know the ESS is not for off-grid, but it was just our main motivation as I explained to use ONLY the dynamic cut-off feature in it. Hopefully, there will one assistant from Victron soon including this for off-grid.

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Answer 1 · 2018-11-13T20:45:51Z

runlusa answered · Nov 13, 2018 at 08:45 PM

I also had low battery warning on my multiplus. I have two battery banks and the low battery warning came on one of the banks even though both banks showed 100% SOC and had good voltage. After checking all batteries I found that one of the batteries was faulting as soon as I was drawing a current. So check you batteries carefully.... also check you s.g. levels of all cells

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy commented · Nov 14, 2018 at 10:53 AM

Thanks for the contribution.

We already do check the batteries individually and they all look healthy from the voltage balance and each battery voltage is in an acceptable range as well.

That's why we got confused about that warning.

important note: as I mentioned the warning goes off ONCE there is a PV or wind charging input even if it is very little input.

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Answer 2 · 2018-12-19T12:35:36Z

Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy answered · Dec 19, 2018 at 12:35 PM

unfortunately, all recommendation doesn't change anything regarding the warning especially while using ESS.

The main factor is within the ESS cut-off voltage settings. But still modifying it doesn't change much of having the warning sign on High SOC

SO the problem still exist! any more suggestions?!

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Answer 3 · 2018-12-19T12:58:04Z

Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered · Dec 19, 2018 at 12:58 PM

Are you using lead acid batteries in an ESS system?

This is not recommended due to regular deep cycling.

The warning will disappear if you reduce the sustain voltage in the ESS assistant from the default of 50V to something lower. It is now possible to do this via the internet with Remote VEConfigure. However you will be running your batteries lower as well, which will decrease their life.

You can see here how when the batteries hit the sustain voltage point of 50V, it triggers the low voltage alarm:

ess.jpg (82.0 KiB)

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy commented · Dec 20, 2018 at 02:22 PM

Thanks Guy,

Do you mean that using ESS is not for Lead-acid batteries, as I didn't read this before even in the ESS manual! But if it is not recommended to use ESS with AGM lead-acid batteries we can remove it.

So please advise us if it is better to remove the ESS in that case?

and if we removed it, how the load control would be dynamically controller?

2. For a 48V system, 50V level actually should not be a low battery indication as it should be an acceptable voltage range for the batteries, or?

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e-box commented · Jan 15, 2019 at 09:13 AM

Hi Guy!

In your comment above you said: "The warning will disappear if you reduce the sustain voltage..."

The ESS-manual says that Sustain mode is entered after batteries have been flagged as discharged (6.4).

In point 4.2 the manual explains the reasons of the blinking low-battery-LED (battery warning): The threshold is the dynamic cut-off voltage increased by the restart offset.

So from what the manual says I don't understand why the Sustain voltage level should have an impact on triggering the low batt warning.

[side question to Sustain Mode:

As far as I understand the manual, the Susain voltage only has a significance when Sustain mode has already been entered -> but to enter Sustain Mode the battery warning must have changed already to battery alarm by falling below the dynamic cut-off voltage (or the BMS signals a low cell voltage), isn't it? ]

Is the manual simply missing this info about Sustain mode you mentioned in your answer above?

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Answer 4 · 2019-01-15T09:26:51Z

e-box answered · Jan 15, 2019 at 09:26 AM

@Mohamed.Elkadragy,

In your initial question you said: "...and the low voltage alarm reseat value for the inverter is set to 3V (instead of 1.2 V default)"

As far as I understand the ESS-manual, the low-battery warning is triggered when battery voltage drops below the cut-off-voltage increased by the restart offset.

So increasing the restart offset from 1,2V to 3V will lead to an earlier low-batt warning, isn't it? ... which is the opposite effect you want to achieve.

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Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy commented · Jan 17, 2019 at 11:32 AM

Thanks for the answer

That's right, I have read this too. But even by 1.2 I still have the low-batt warning. That is why it doesn't make sense until now!

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Answer 5 · 2019-05-07T13:54:43Z

Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy answered · May 07, 2019 at 01:54 PM

Hello Akram, We didn't manage to disable the low battery warning and decided to LIVE WITH IT as a Fauls warning, We really did check everything we could do but didn't find a solution. It doesn't affect the system operation anyway.

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Answer 6 · 2019-06-06T10:15:49Z

thubamoyo answered · Jun 06, 2019 at 10:15 AM

Hi @Mohamed, did you manage to solve this problem? If you did, how did you do it? I am experiencing a similar problem on a Victron/BYD system that is configured in ESS mode. The battery voltage low LED is blinking but the SOC is at 90%

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Answer 7 · 2019-07-08T11:34:13Z

Ben Graham van der Sandt answered · Jul 08, 2019 at 11:34 AM

my understanding is its just a "flag" and not an alarm but its driving me dilly with 25+ emails per day from various sites and then the clients complaining that they keep on getting low battery warnings and there's still 80% or 90% battery left...

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Answer 8 · 2019-07-08T11:58:01Z

Rob Fijn answered · Jul 08, 2019 at 11:58 AM

Hello,

I use a small system. MultiPlus 800AV with one LivePO4 12V/60Ah. I run a AC load of 130 Watt or 260Watt.. Have a MPPT100/30. AC is connected to the MultiPlus and I have the ESS assistant and run the latest firmware. Simple system to play with.
I also get the Battery Alarm, even on moments that the battery voltage is not the lowest on that day. Yes, always at night. Even when the AC is used because the SOC is down to the level I set in the ESS.

This "problem' with the battery voltage is there al since the beginning of the ESS assistance, was never able to solve this. Victron needs to have a look into this.

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Answer 9 · 2019-08-08T05:32:29Z

robkenny answered · Aug 08, 2019 at 05:32 AM

I’m having the same issue when using ESS.

Running two 24V Multiplus inverters. It’s only happening on one leg (split phase system) and only when running ESS regardless what the SOC is at. The voltage is never ever at or below 24V and I typically in the battery utilization mode to “Optimized (With BatteryLife)” and set at 95% SOC. It’s a lithium bank and doesn’t drop below 90%.

Obviously this is just a simple glitch that pops up with ESS users currently since recent updates.

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Koul Alim commented · Aug 09, 2019 at 10:13 AM

i have the same problem with my ESS sytem

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Koul Alim Koul Alim commented · Aug 09, 2019 at 10:17 AM

since a year. Nothing has changed

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Answer 10 · 2019-08-13T16:10:54Z

Mohamed Mamdouh Elkadragy answered · Aug 13, 2019 at 04:10 PM

@Akram I did some battery modelling to calculate the right settings, the behaviour is a bit shifted but still getting this LOW BATTERY WARNING always even on high SOC like 85% and high battery voltage levels as well!! This is an issue which needs definitely to be solved by the ESS engineering Algorithm from Victron direction I believe not from us as users

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Aug 13, 2019 at 08:14 PM

Hi Mohamed,

You've been struggling with this for a long time, but don't seem to go by the advice given. I'd advice to ask an installer to get things right for you.

I think the problems come from your ESS settings, as Guy tried to explain:

Have you tried using the standard values? or even a little below this? 0.005C = 48V, 0.25C = 45V, etc.

The settings you use now give a premature low voltage shutdown, but also warnings. if voltage comes below 48.5 + 1,25V = 49.75V

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Answer 11 · 2019-10-23T07:57:43Z

Jaco Reinecke answered · Oct 23, 2019 at 07:57 AM

I have the same problem.
Grid-tied system.
Lead-acid 450ah 48v bank (2 separate banks) set to only go to 20% DOD / SOC 80%.
Inverter on standard values.
All batteries test correctly with hydrometer and load tester.

Get an ESS notification of a low voltage when the batteries are at 49.98v.
Have set ESS to Alarm only, as it is driving me nuts. :-)

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Oct 26, 2019 at 09:16 AM

Hi @Jaco, Please check your ESS assistant settings (dynamic cut of voltages)

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Jaco Reinecke Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Dec 23, 2019 at 09:29 AM

Hi Daniël,

The settings for the ESS assistant are the standard AGM ones.

Here is what confuses me, te volts are above the min settings:

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Jaco Reinecke commented · Dec 23, 2019 at 05:11 PM

Hi @Jaco, ok and what are the settings in the 'inverter' tab?

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Jaco Reinecke Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Dec 23, 2019 at 07:15 PM

Hi Daniël,

Here they are, left stock standard:

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Answer 12 · 2022-11-13T14:49:38Z

Lionel SEYDOUX answered · Nov 13, 2022 at 02:49 PM

I have a similar problem but without any grid connection :

In my stand alone system, 30kWh lead batteries (water level checked), 2kWp on the roof (SSE, slope 8/10), all managed by Victron system including a Multiplus 24/5000/230, at 88% SOC just before and after sun rise (last time about 1kW input) and with no abnormal load, I happen to have many low battery warnings every now and then. As a caution, I started my generator, but I think it should not happen.

One explanation could be a far too optimistic SOC value: for the last 15 days, a 100% level was announced for one to 3 hours a day. This means absorbtion is not taking place, and the real SOC if pretty well under 100%

Another explaniation is that my batteries offer much less than nominal capacity (30kWh for 24V, 1250Ah) as they are 10 years old. How do you measure a lead battery capacity?

Any other explanation?

Following, the last 2 days of alarm logs
device triggered by description started at cleared after
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-10 07:22:53; 2m, 30s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-10 07:10:12; 22s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-10 06:58:31; 9m, 52s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-10 04:43:44; 2h, 14m, 32s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-10 04:41:14; 23s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-10 04:11:11; 21s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning, 2022-11-09 16:26:30; 4m, 56s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-09 14:04:43; 5m, 29s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-09 14:04:06; 22s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-09 09:11:39; 25s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-09 09:05:06; 1m, 39s
VE.Bus System; Automatic monitoring; Low battery: Warning; 2022-11-09 08:00:49; 2m, 10s

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gazza commented · Nov 13, 2022 at 03:19 PM

"10 years old" for a lead-acid battery is more than a good age!! That would be the first place to start(for me).? You can buy battery capacity testers but good ones are expensive. You could possibly get one of your batteries in the bank tested by a local specialist?? to see the likelihood of this being a problem for the whole bank? The main symptom of an "old" battery with low capacity is that it will not hold it's charge (particularly under regular high load).

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Answer 13 · 2023-08-13T09:40:26Z

Richard Pearce answered · Aug 13, 2023 at 09:40 AM

I too have this happening. Non ESS system in a camper van and constantly sends Low battery warnings when only lightly used.

400Ah LiFePo4

Multi compact 12/2000/80

DC system with SmartShunt

Smart MPPT

All linked to Cerbo GX

It looks like the non-ESS cut-off voltages are what triggers these alarms. They are set lower than default (I’ll post up later when I have access). Also I have seriously upgraded the battery cables and kept them under 2m each in case of voltage drop.

Any suggestions welcome.

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Low battery warning continuaslly appeare on Quattro while SOC is high?!

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