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leeprior avatar image
leeprior asked

What is the maximum AC current output of Parallel 15kV Quattro Inverters

Good Afternoon, I am currently designing a hybrid battery system across three phase, the phases are unbalanced and can't be fixed due to the sites businesses. I know that the max AC amperage output is 2 x 100 amps, on a 15kVa Quattro. but if I install 2 per phase does that give me a total of 400 amp output per phase or I am miss reading the spec sheet. My Ampage max output is at its highest around 12 midday and i am also installing 100kWh of BYD batteries that will move up 200kWh by mid-year.

Please can someone just confirm what the max AC amperage output is in this situation

ampsaccuracy
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boekel avatar image boekel ♦ commented ·

Continuous output is 60-65 A per 15 kVA inverter, and pass-trough current is 100A per inverter.

What do you mean by 'hybrid battery system'? off-grid with solar and generator? or also grid present?

For such high output systems I'd consult with a knowledgeable distributor, I know it is or was possible to have different configurations per phase, but this has to be confirmed by someone with more knowledge than me.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ve.bus:manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems

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ben avatar image
ben answered ·

When the marketing material says "2x100", that means there are two AC inputs each of which can pass through up to 100A. But you can only use one of them at a time.

In addition, the 15kVA model can produce another ~65A from the battery, in ideal conditions.

So the maximum output you can achieve with a single unit is ~165A. That number goes down if your inverters warm up (derate), if your battery can't handle that much load, etc.

If you parallel two units, you can double those numbers.

(All of this information is in the manual, if you want to have a look yourself.)

You should probably work with someone who has experience with large Victron systems, if you can. Or plan to read the manuals. :)

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leeprior avatar image leeprior commented ·

Were can i Find a copy of the manual and were about would it be.

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ leeprior commented ·

There is a link to all the product manuals here:

https://www.victronenergy.com/support

Specifically in this case:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Quattro-5k-8k-10k-15K-100-100A-230V-(firmware-xxxx4xx)-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE.pdf

The limitation that Ben refers to is on page 10.

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leeprior avatar image leeprior Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Thank you, Guy, for the link I found a hard copy in the office.


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Wessel Wessels avatar image
Wessel Wessels answered ·

I'm working with Lee on this project and as far as the system is concerned, we have the following installed:

  1. Grid: We have grid, it is quiet stable but we have load shedding in South Africa
  2. Required Power: The supporting load to be supported is all linked to the time of day. The biggest challenge we have is that we cannot split the load into essential and non-essential load, as the installation is at the main grid incomer and the load gets split at multiple DB Boards on the lodge
  3. PV System: 128.7kWp SolarEdge System that will be connected to the load site of the Victrons. With SE now allowing Frequency Shifting this site is registered as a Alpha site with SolarEdge to make this integration work smoothly.
  4. Generator: 250kVa Genset, with ComAp controller and it is also integrated with the PV i.e. the PV and Genset will work together in a no grid situation
  5. Batteries: 100kWh BYD 2nd Life Lithium battery pack with intelligent BMS supporting Current Limiting and Load Balancing, with a plan to upgrade it as we understand the usage profiles better.
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boekel avatar image boekel ♦ commented ·

Do you know the peak power required? And if this is well balanced on the 3 phases?
And how much power can the Batteries deliver?

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Wessel Wessels avatar image
Wessel Wessels answered ·

The highest peak we seen so far for a phase are:

  • 250 Amps
  • 58 W (Total 158 W)

This happened during Sun Hours and the trend is mostly during SUn hours, which the grid-tied inverters should take off a lot

The phases is not well balanced but with the Victrons per phase that should be a big problem. See attached graphs

The battery bank is 100kWh, which we will upgrade once we've seen how the system runs.

See attached 2 graphs.


screenshot-2019-03-04-at-074343.png (188.9 KiB)
screenshot-2019-03-04-at-074430.png (196.9 KiB)
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boekel avatar image
boekel answered ·

Seems to run nicely than? Did you experience grid outage yet?

How many 15k units did you have? because 128kWp seems a bit high for a 100kWh battery (but if it's a high power battery it might work). Is all solar on the output side of the Quattro's?

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Wessel Wessels avatar image Wessel Wessels commented ·

6 x 15k Units

All the Solar is on the output side of the Quattro's

At a later stage we will also add DC Connected PV with more batteries.

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leeprior avatar image
leeprior answered ·

There are 6 x 15kVa quattros, 2 on each phase. There is a 128 kWp Grid-tied solar system connected on the circulated Grid. The Batteries are connected to the Victrons as a UPS set up at the moment. But would like to combine them with the generator and add Solar to them at a later date.

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Paul B avatar image
Paul B answered ·

Am I wrong here as this does not seem to meet the Factor 1.0 rule

ie the solar cannot be larger than the inverter size

total inverters are 90VA solar is 128 Kw

I would have though you would need 3 x 15VA inverters on each phase


?????? what am I missing here

2. The Factor 1.0 rule

The max PV power must be equal or less than the VA rating of the inverter/charger

2.1 Rule definition

In both grid-connected and off-grid systems with PV inverters installed on the output of a Multi, Inverter or Quattro, there is a maximum of PV power that can be installed. This limit is called the factor 1.0 rule: 3.000 VA Multi = 3.000 Wp installed solar power. So for a 8.000 VA Quattro the maximum is 8.000 Wp, for two paralleled 8000 VA Quattros the maximum is 16.000 Wp, etc.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ac_coupling:start


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boekel avatar image boekel ♦ commented ·

That is correct, as it is unlikely that there will be no power draw during the solar generation, this probably will not give problems.

The battery size will be a problem as it cannot handle the current, but I read that it will be enlarged.

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Wessel Wessels avatar image Wessel Wessels boekel ♦ commented ·

The solar sizing was design for Grid Tied without any curtailment, as we don't get Feed-in Tariffs from the utility in South Africa. We are however throttling the inverters as the load is small over non-busy days (Mon and Tue).

On the batteries we are already planning to add another 200kWh and 3 more Victrons.

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