Victron ESS + ET112 = slow response

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mysik asked Jun 3, '20

Victron ESS + ET112 = slow response

Hi,

Recently I've installed ET112 grid meter on my system (which was using CT sensor previously) and I've noticed that the Multi is very slow on response to load. Currently my system looks like this:

The grid set point is set to -10W. The multi needs a good 15-18 seconds to stabilize after large load kicks in and another approx 15s to stabilize after load drops off. Check the video from VenusGX (the load is switched on at about 16s of the clip and switched of at 43s of the clip):

Is that how it should be? The difference in the load is just about 1.4kW, why is it taking so long to handle that?

Previously I was using CT Sensor extended with Cat5e cable to over 25m long, the system looked like this:

The response to load was pretty much instant. I've recorder video using the same load as on the previous one (load switched on at about 10s and switched off at 23s of the video):

The system need seconds to stabilize

Also you can see a clear difference on the Grid use graph from VRM portal:

As you can see, with CT sensor the system is very close to grid set point, with ET112 grid meter it is way off and hardly ever stay close to set point. The situation is even worst during cloudy day when PV power is fluctuating (you cen see it on my other youtube video).

Is it normal behavior? It looks like Multi can handle this load easily, the problem seems to be in the feedback from the grid meter (or algorithm when ET112 is in use). Is there anything I can do to improve this reaction time??? Please advice.

Kind Regards

Multiplus-II ESS grid ct

ess-diagram1.jpg (20.0 KiB)

ess-diagram2.jpg (23.6 KiB)

capture.png (29.4 KiB)

capture1.png (32.1 KiB)

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2020-06-03T15:43:59Z

Meine_Energiewende answered · Jun 03, 2020 at 03:43 PM

This looks exactly like my system with an ET340 System. I even did not know that i can respond fast with a CT Sensor. Do you know if 3 Phase setups are possbile with the CT Sensor ? It would be a very nice option for me then.

Thx

Jens

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Maciek commented · Jun 18, 2022 at 04:35 PM

Yes. You can use 3 external CT or internal in MPII.

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Answer 2 · 2020-06-03T22:08:25Z

Rob Duthie answered · Jun 03, 2020 at 10:08 PM

Hi

Remember a CT is a analog device and will be much faster in doing calculations than a digital meter like the ET112 which does have built in delays in the baud rate and in its sending of data out

which can be set in the ET112 configuration software you can set baud rate and DMD calculation time etc to upload the data.

Note: the ET112 is way more accurate (Meter Grade Quality) in measuring values than the CT is, the CT is only average readings, as advised by Victron. And they advise the setting of the grid set points should be greater than -10 around about -50 or +50 as the inverters are not revenue grade type readings as a Fronius inverters etc which are. Standard setting is 50. If read the ESS manual guide it tell you this.

I have the same setup running all the latest firmware updates (need to check yours?) which has a lot of improvements regards to readings in power etc. And i have not noticed any lack of speed of the readings which appears to be around a second. I have mine set to zero grid set point, which works OK in my application.

And i have zero feed in and all export when i have surplus PV power. Also mine is running over a wireless RS485 link as well.

Regards

Rob D

NZ

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mysik commented · Jun 04, 2020 at 01:55 PM

If I can see a load measurements that I have on the GX screen are from ET112, so the system knows that there is a change in the load, it is just not reacting fast enough.

It pretty much looks like ET112 is sending data to VenuxGX, but Multi is lagging behind. So from what I can see the problem is more in VenuxGX or/and Multiplus settings or comms between them. If ET112 would be a problem then you would not see the load on the VenuxGX screen and that is not the case.

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rainerb commented · Jun 05, 2020 at 07:57 AM

I can confirm the behaviour. When I switch on the 2000W load, the correct measurements of the load and the grid usage (from ET340) are shown on the Remote Console after about 2-3 seconds. BUT it takes another 10 seconds until the ESS regulation has compensated this load to the grid setpoint.

Maybe the quite slow regulation speed is intended this way?

Maybe @mvader from Victron can bring some light into this?

Regards

Rainer

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n-dee rainerb commented · Jun 05, 2020 at 08:46 AM

Hi, contacted mvader already with this some time ago. (but not as prezise as you do)
Answer was that it is not (and willl not be) worked on this.
I hope that with more people reporting he will change his mind.

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Answer 3 · 2020-06-04T04:32:34Z

rainerb answered · Jun 04, 2020 at 04:32 AM

Hi,

I have a Multiplus with ET340 meter and my ESS system needs about 15 seconds to compensate a 2000W load. Is this a normal time span or can I increase the speed?

What is the recommended baud rate for a ET340 with about 5 meter cable length?

Thank you.

Regards

Rainer

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pau1phi11ips commented · May 19, 2022 at 09:21 PM

I use 9600 with the ET112. This seems to work fine for me.

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Answer 4 · 2020-06-05T07:33:40Z

n-dee answered · Jun 05, 2020 at 07:33 AM

Same Problem here (with EM24) - System needs approx 10 seconds to compensate

Additionally:
1) Grid setpoint is never reached (regardless of setting) but fluctuates around setting.
2) Fluctuation of setpoint is as high as +-1500watts (if load kicks in) so that even water warming (set to -500w) kicks in (after load ends and ESS goes to e.g -1000w) and drains battery.
3) In Austria feed in from Battery in the night is actually forbidden but due to the points above this is not configurable.

Seems as ESS function is technically not mature. I'm hoping for improvements in future firmware releases.

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laurentiupitran commented · Jun 05, 2020 at 03:54 PM

hello,

please see attached picture with reaction time in a ESS system.

laurentiu

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answering-time.png (107.6 KiB)

mysik commented · Jun 05, 2020 at 06:18 PM

But ESS function with CT clip looks muuuuch better than when it using grid meter. That what I still don't understand, especially that using grid meter you have more accurate information and this data is available on GX device because it is displayed, it just look like the system is not using it or is poorly tuned to use it.

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Answer 5 · 2020-06-13T12:26:28Z

Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered · Jun 13, 2020 at 12:26 PM

Hi @Mysik and others,

I've asked around, and this is a known issue that is being worked on.

Thanks for finding and reporting the issue!

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n-dee commented · Aug 13, 2020 at 07:44 AM

Hi,

Additional to the occuring slow response I'm adding a Video of (relative) stable Loads but somewhat "confusing" fluctuation of grid setpoint:
My settings: Grid setpoint -20 -> Please note that I dont have AC Loads connected. The whole house is on Critical loads. therefore AC Loads should stay on zero.

regards
Andy

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grid.mp4 (1.6 MiB)

gyrovague commented · Sep 04, 2020 at 09:45 PM

Any progress on this? I'm facing a similar issue, which might be related to ESS + ET112, where it is back-feeding into my grid and causing the prepaid electricity meter to reset. @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

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nickdb ♦♦ gyrovague commented · Sep 07, 2020 at 11:52 AM

Are you on one of the tshwane newer smart meters? They are very sensitive and have been causing issues.

Double check what your grid setpoint is in ESS, raising this can help.

Make sure grid feed-in is disabled.

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peternielsen commented · Nov 11, 2020 at 07:49 AM

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) is there an update on this ? Why is there a difference between the reaction of a CT vs Energy Meter ? It seems it's not the communication and it's ESS how acts differently, in my head it's just a different way to give the same information to the system.

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Noisy Boysie commented · Jan 23, 2021 at 01:26 PM

for reference i reported this issue back in march https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/44996/multiplus-ii-et112-current-transformer.html

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elel commented · May 11, 2022 at 02:52 PM

Hi @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ,

I encountered the same problem in which the response of my ESS+MP-II+ET112 system to a sudden change of load is very slow.

(For those said that you don’t have this problem with their ET112, try something with high load and turn it on/off repeatedly. You will find that when you turn it on, the grid at once takes up the load, then the battery gradually takes up the load, and then the grid resumes to the setpoint. The whole adjustment would last for 10 to 20s depending on how large the load is. The big problem is when you turn off the load. In such case, once you turn it off, the battery does not decrease its output at once but does it gradually. It causes the extra power (from the battery) being fed into the grid. It takes 10 to 20s for the grid to go back to the setpoint. It is really annoying to see how my hob uses the grid power (i.e. not being able to use the battery) when it turns on and then causes the battery to push extra power to the grid when it turns on/off for 10 to 20 seconds, repeatedly, at its temperature control mode.)

I have now changed to use CT instead of ET112 as CT gives a very good response to the change of load. However, with such change, I lose the accuracy of ET112 and the Venus screen does not show the Critical Loads as a separate box

I agree with @peternielsen that it is not a communication problem between ET112 and Venus/OS but how MP-II/ESS reacts to sudden change of load after getting the same information from different sources (i.e. from CT or grid meter). Why can ESS+CT response to sudden change of load quickly but ESS+grid meter can't ? What is the difference?

Can you give us an update the status of how Victron is now solving this problem after your update nearly 2 years ago?

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shaneyake elel commented · May 11, 2022 at 05:31 PM

The difference between the CT and the meter is where the power regulation happens.

With a CT the power regulation is done inside the inverter and is only limited to the 400W per second ramp rate limit.

When using the meter the data goes from the Meter to GX to Inverter, this can be anywhere from 1-5s

The truth is that this doesn't really matter, most utilities are using a 30 min window with some using a 1 min window. They take total power in-out = reading and report that to their billing systems. So if you look at those readings you will see the reported value is 0 or close to 0 because the grid usage was cancelled out by the export at the end. You can easy confirm if this is the case with your utility by looking at your bill. In 99% of places the little export and import you are seeing doesn't matter so I don't expect Victron to dedicate lots of time on this, however the new meters released do look like they will have better performance in the future and that Victron is still aware of this problem. This is fundamental limitation to the way the GX works that will take a lot of work to fix.

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Answer 6 · 2020-06-28T16:47:59Z

Christian Dorst answered · Jun 28, 2020 at 04:47 PM

I have the same problem with EM24 in 3-phase-setup with Multiplus II here.

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/54038/multiplus-ii-ess-mode-1-latency-and-limits.html

Sunny greetings

Christian

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Answer 7 · 2020-07-09T23:01:36Z

Same problem here but with a "twist". I have an ET340 and poll it from an ethernet based linux controller approx. 5 times per second. ESS IN "EXTERNAL" mode, i want to control it via setpoints.
Ialso read the relevant modbus registers showing the actual production values for the multiplusses from the venus GX approx 5 times per second.
I calculate the needed setpoints with those 200ms intervals, so i could update the setpoints via modbus/tcp 5x per second, but the system then behaves very erratic and sometimes even the AC load side is not showing on the display any more.

So now i have reduced polling and setpoint calculation and setting (via mb/tcp) to about once every 1.2 seconds. i can see that despite writing back those setpoints every 1.2 seconds via mb/tcp, they freqently are ignored/dropped (but modbus write is acknowleddged) ! maybe that gives a hint.

ESS 1: -44/ -160/ -230 2: -24/ -804/ -801 3: -33/ -684/ -641 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -146,-811,-682

ESS 1: -62/ -160/ -146 2: -31/ -804/ -801 3: -28/ -684/ -641 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -128,-804,-686

ESS 1: -54/ -160/ -128 2: -27/ -804/ -804 3: -28/ -684/ -686 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -136,-807,-687

ESS 1: -48/ -160/ -136 2: -32/ -804/ -807 3: -36/ -684/ -687 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -142,-802,-679

ESS 1: -28/ -160/ -136 2: -24/ -804/ -802 3: -42/ -684/ -687 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -162,-810,-672

ESS 1: -21/ -177/ -162 2: -25/ -812/ -810 3: -49/ -663/ -672 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -187,-818,-645

ESS 1: -5/ -177/ -187 2: 2/ -812/ -810 3: -25/ -663/ -672 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -203,-844,-668

ESS 1: -1/ -177/ -203 2: -13/ -812/ -844 3: -23/ -663/ -668 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -206,-829,-670

ESS 1: -10/ -177/ -203 2: -29/ -812/ -844 3: -28/ -663/ -670 BAT: 69.0,49.8new setpoints should be -197,-813,-665

I have high power pumps (11kwh 3P), when they come up they run for several seconds and then switch off. This causes complete instability of the victron stuff, said simple - it cannot follow at all and usually i have to feed the pumps for many seconds from the grid, then when multiplusses finally are up to produce, the pumps switch off and i feed the grid.

I would be more than happy to see this getting fixed. Maybe those observations help - i guess it's not the ESS regulation or meter speed (because both is not having an influence here in my system), it seems to be loss of set setpoint values, eventually, and very slow responses from the multiplusses to GX

Johannes

Answer 8 · 2020-07-10T10:28:49Z

jacola answered · Jul 10, 2020 at 10:28 AM

is there maybe a way to simulate the CT Sensor, to take advantage of the much faster response handling ? I guess the "correct" way would be that victron addresses this in the software, but i am willing to read my meter, do my own control loop and provide split second setpoints, even by simulating a CT sensor, as long as the multiplus follows my wishes quickly ..

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Answer 9 · 2020-07-13T19:05:16Z

matthias-roetzer answered · Jul 13, 2020 at 07:05 PM

Hi all,

I've seen this slow response to load and PV inverter output jumps as well in cases where the multiplus II does the grid measurement. I was then curious how it would behave in off grid mode and good thanks in this case the response is ultra fast.

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff), nevertheless this is a nasty issue, glad to hear that Victron is working on it!

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Answer 10 · 2020-09-12T01:35:26Z

Rob Duthie answered · Sep 12, 2020 at 01:35 AM

Hi All

I am running a ET112 with Mulitplus2 and Fronius Grid tied inverter and 10 kw Pylon tech battery pack, and my ET is wireless linked to the Meter board to my raspi controller, and i have no issues of slow response at all. I have set my feed to zero feed for the Victron but the Fronius injects what it likes etc. But the meter response is very quick in flipping from supply load and battery and grid within a couple of seconds, no delays anywhere at all.

But being in New Zealand we don't have silly lines, or power retailers company's restricting or penalizing you for injecting power like other countries do. You need to protest your rights to the solar movement. They are are being a bully boy.

Rob D

NZ

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Answer 11 · 2020-11-11T07:46:56Z

peternielsen answered · Nov 11, 2020 at 07:46 AM

@Mysik @RainerB did you find a solution to this, what is the reason one cannot use CT sensor on each grid phase ? Is there a benefit using the Energy Meter, i can see you @Mysik changed from CT-> Energy meter, why ? Can ESS not work with 3 x CT sensors and do the same as an Energy Meter ?

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Maciek commented · Jun 18, 2022 at 10:11 AM

Let me answer your questions since I’m in exactly the same situation and tried different solution, hardware and did all measurements.

You can use 3 CT sensors for 3P configuration. Reaction is quite fast but readings from CT while Multiplus are under load are completely inaccurate So inverter is compensate wrong load and generates Big feed to grid (while showing in the system that all is OK). It looks Victron can not implement proper algorithm for reading signal from CT sensor in 3P configuration for many years.

that’s why people (including me) try external energy meter, which is very accurate but as we discovered inverters due to communication issues can not adjust quickly and it takes more than than 25 seconds for higher load.

for example I have 3 pumps and 3AC and my System is constantly getting crazy feed to grid about 2000w !

I don’t understand how it is possible that company like Vivtron can not solve such a big problem. And what is even worse it’s not described and communicated to clients properly.

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rainerb commented · Nov 11, 2020 at 07:59 AM

Hi, unfortunately I did not find a solution for this. I am still using my ET340 energy meter and it is still slow.

Regards

Rainer

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Answer 12 · 2022-05-19T22:05:22Z

Rob Duthie answered · May 19, 2022 at 10:05 PM

Hi

Never had a problem with slow responce from my ET112 meter with Mulitplus2 i have installed to date.

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Answer 13 · 2022-06-18T16:38:47Z

Maciek answered · Jun 18, 2022 at 04:38 PM

I have same problem here in three phase configuration. 3x MultiPlus II 5000/48V.

I tried all configurations:

1. 3x external CT sensors directly on grid lines.

2. Energy meter ET340

3. All loads directed through MultiPlus (IN and OUT) using internal sensor for measurements.

Non of these works correctly.
1. Gives feed-in (verified on pro external meter) due to wrong readings of power from CT . Probably wrong implementation by Victron while calculating power in 3 phase configuration (active reactive) because it require more data… but system react fast as expected when increasing and throttling!

2. Gives accurate readings from meter but inverters reacts with such big delay (up to 25s) that system is useless … feeding more power to grid than producing for consumption ( this situation repeats every 2-3 minutes when I have 2 pumps and 3 AC. Perfect example of totally wrong design of the system ….

3. Same as 1 with little less error. In fact readings go off in different way than on external sensor so this solution is the best for now.

After huge investment from my side (time and money) I see i on this forum that its old problem which Victron is not able to solve for years.

And dont accept explanation found here that they can not send reading from energy meter to multiplus in less than 1 second and replace it with reading from CT - then after 3 steps it should go down. 3-5 seconds to throttle down is acceptable but 25 sec definitely not with 5 consumer turning on and off with 1-3kw system się getting crazy on both sides inverter and grid.

Clearly implementation of external energy meter is not done correctly. I can see from my external meter connected for checking that Victron system throttle down quite fast for 75% but then slow down and for next 15 seconds struggle doing strange things. It looks like a joke not professional solution. All these energy meters can be used only to display values in Venus system but not to control it due to delays introduced by Victron on the way to inverter. We have 2022 and how long does it take to read data, send , do simple math and send further … Or let them clearly say they use wrong protocols and algorithms which blocks proper implementation.

In my opinion for this momemnt ESS is not mature and not ready for sale and installation. They should stop advertise it.

UPDATE: after suggestions from one of active user here I’ve tried combined solution Energy meter and CT sensors in the same time. And got more satisfying results. Still not as expected but much more precise readings on one device with quick reaction as using CT sensor or ET meter only. Unfortunately these readings are not used by ESS. Thanks @shaneyake !!!

Maybe Victron @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) can use data from both devices to develop algorithm which will react quick using signals from CT first but then adjust precise readings using data from meter when the load is cons?? For example calculate delta between CT and ET and then every 3 seconds apply to CT readings

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 19, 2022 at 07:06 PM

Hi @Mysik , what grid-code are you using?

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Maciek Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 20, 2022 at 07:17 PM

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

Hi. I'm using "no grid code" (first or second option on the list) because country where I live (UAE) is not on the list. Would appreciate if you recommend country from the list which is close to local requirements.

Today I spend another few hours on measurements and can only confirm what written above. Test done with quite stable 3p load 1.2kW on each phase turning on and off every 60s.

- external CT completely not usable. I used short cables 1m and tried to isolate them from any interferences. While ESS and inverters believe to keep Grid Point 150 (readings around 50+50+50) in reality on my calibrated Iskra meter and also on ET340 its back feeding -120 -30 -40 jumping like a lottery (but still for ESS nice and constant grid input around 150 :)))

Build in CT sensors, much more stable readings but still far away from reality. Instead +50+50+50 showing in the system it's working on +30+0+40 (fluctuating of course under 0 quite often).

Two interesting observations in this case. first: under small load around 100-200W per phase readings are more accurate but under load 1200W per phase difference in readings from reality goes down at least 30-40W which looks like some correction factor is missing for this setup of CT in 3P config under load (VAR??).

And of course when ESS controlled by ET340 readings are pretty accurate (comparing with calibrated Iskra meter is +-1W) but system is working in completely unacceptable way taking ages to stabilize under load and then the same to throttle down.

In general it's very sad situation. People like me spending a lot of money on Victron MPII and CT or energy meters like et340 which are not working correctly in the system as intended.

It should be clearly informed to clients that in this case Victron ESS is not working correctly.

Now temporary solution is to put Grid Point extremely high but then during 24h operation we will have quite high energy consumption.

Or to go Off Grid by switching off AC IN for as long as possible but as I see from some answers on this forum Victron is not supporting this solution while not providing correct one.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 20, 2022 at 04:44 PM

Hi @Mysik

the ET340 is very slow, and also has an internal filter making the effective readings even slower.
The EM24 is already much faster.

the new EM540 will be much faster than the EM24, so improvement is coming.

And as you've seen, the CT's are much faster due to the direct communication with the ESS assistant and fastest readout.

Note that a system with the loads behind the inverter is as fast as a system with external CT's installed.

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samuel-brucksch Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jul 03, 2022 at 06:58 AM

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) could you please provide more information on the improvements related to Em540? From my understanding so far, the restriction is not from the update rate of the meter, but from that 400W/s limit. So with a faster update rate of the meter will that limit be higher? Because if not we will see the same problem with EM540, as people already confirmed, that the meter showed updated values quite early, but the Multiplus was still slow in adopting the power.

Are there also any Venus OS or MP-II improvements (software side) coming with the EM540, that faster readings from the meter will also allow a higher limit for the power calculation? Or is that 400W limit totally decoupled from the meter updates? Because then we would not see any improvement with the new meters.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ samuel-brucksch commented · Jul 03, 2022 at 04:41 PM

Hi @Samuel Brucksch

Unfortunately I don't know all the answers, I know that the meter is faster.

The 400W/s limit is probably a grid-code limit?

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jetstram61 Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jul 18, 2022 at 08:52 AM

Hi Daniel, I am using an external CT with my Multiplus 2 and ESS system. This results as you know in a slightly incorrect VRM display because the multi believes all the loads are flowing through it. Because of this I am getting some L1 overload messages however can I assume these are false as the loads are not actually passing through the Multi ?

Thanks

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mysik Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 20, 2022 at 05:21 PM

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) , you responding to wrong person. @Maciek was asking the question, not me!

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ mysik commented · Jun 20, 2022 at 06:31 PM

My apologies!

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Maciek Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 20, 2022 at 07:37 PM

Hi @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff),

I trust what you say But it's difficult to accept this excuse when I see readings from ET340 quite accurate (very accurate comparing to CT sensor build in MultiplusII) and updated morer than once per second on my GX screen!

For me it looks like, the way how you designed system, to connect, read, process and forward these data through different devices and protocols makes it not usable or simply not implemented in optimal way.

Few years ago I was using some super cheap 3x Chinese inverters with external power meters communicating through RS485 cable and it was adjusting to load without any issues, like in your solution.

In all your materials Victron says 'Energy meter....used as control input for an ESS systems" What we see its not true! It's good only to display correct readings on GX device. But when you switch control to "External meter" to control input it behaves like blind person moving in crowded metro station.

Now you mentioned some new product coming (EM350). Looks like new expenses. Can you share more info please? When we can expect it to come and what improvement it will bring?

If I can suggest, you should work more on CT sensors implementation in MPII. I'm sure it's either something wrong in algorithms or some parameter is missing. Its suspicious especially when ESS shows positive readings from CTs nicely adjusted to Grid setpoint and quite stable when in fact they are negative and fluctuating a lot on 2 independent meters! Definitely must be something wrong with data processing under higher load in my 3P configuration. Under 1KW load per phase CT readings are lower for about 40-50W than correct readings from meter .... so its matter of correction table based on load or similar solution.

Another improvement would be for the system is controlled by "individual phases" in ESS to setup and control Per phase grid setpoint not Total L1+L2+L3.

If you have some solutions suggestion how I can improve or test this configuration I would be happy to try.

Thx and Best regards.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Maciek commented · Jun 21, 2022 at 08:01 AM

Hi @Maciek

CT's or the loads behind the inverter is the quickest way possible.

did you try selecting ESS 'per phase' regulation?

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Maciek Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jun 21, 2022 at 10:53 AM

Of course working only with this setting. But what I mean is when you select Per phase regulation to set grid point and control it per phase not as summary of 3phases. I observe that’s MP even on stable loads like to work for example (60,5,50) with 2 phases quite above from 0 and one just around which cause backfeeding during fluctuations. If it will keep all 3phases far away from zero it will not happen so often.

All these happens under higher but stable 3p load.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Maciek commented · Jun 21, 2022 at 08:26 AM

@Maciek disconnecting grid is also an option.

basic function purely in assistants is written here:

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/assistants:ignore_ac_input_using_the_generator_assistant

of course you can connect the Cerbo's relay with generator start/stop function to an input of the L1 inverter and use that to ignore input when wanted.

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Answer 14 · 2022-08-28T19:58:51Z

h-copter answered · Aug 28, 2022 at 07:58 PM

@Mysik long and interesting thread. As the originator, what solution have you now implemented?

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Answer 15 · 2022-08-28T21:04:51Z

gazza answered · Aug 28, 2022 at 09:04 PM

I agree... a long and interesting thread several years!! My take is that a faster meter will make (almost)zero difference here. If the ET112 is 500mS response time and we replace with a 200mS or less (obviously) more expensive meter, the problem is clearly elsewhere in the system to produce the 10-15second response time we are discussing here? It is an order of magnitude that is unacceptable in the whole philosophy of the ESS that is advertised by Victron.? Sure I get that the analog feedback of the CT clamp is almost realtime and the energy meter requires processing but please do not insult our intelligence... that is not the problem, there is a design issue, whether hardware or software. The CT clamp is just not a viable option for many as the solar hardware is not always near to the grid input point.
For those that publish that they have NO problem, which are in the minority on this thread, please show us the light? Show some videos, what are you doing that we are not? I just don't buy it when there is so much evidence of failed ESS grid set-point following. Indeed it is so critical for certain innocent customers who could actually be penalised for not complying with grid feed in restrictions?

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larsea-dk commented · Mar 27, 2023 at 03:20 PM

I run ESS. I also experience the slow respons from the multiplus if ie battery is full and loads is quite steady but I have fluctuating power from mppt due to clouds, its an issue!! This makes some serious jumps in the current flow and the multiplus is not fast enough to react on this. So it for the most lead to overvoltage on battery :-(

I bought Victron to avoid the Chinese products and saw a very nice VRM platform, which indeed is nice… but the basic things like handling power on an ESS system and avoid overcharging battery is key for such a system. Also you can’t control max current to battery on ESS unless you do some NodeRed fixing tweaking the grid setpoint!

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Answer 16 · 2022-11-28T08:12:30Z

mrrikp answered · Nov 28, 2022 at 08:12 AM

Same issue here. With CT, response almost instant, but as I have non-critical loads on the input side of the inverter, those aren’t accounted for. Hence, I use the ET112 on grid side and observe very slow and ‘wobbly’ results using it. Turning in a kettle results in wild fluctuations!

Given this is an important part of ESS, Victron really ought to officially comment - even if to give a reasonable explanation as to why they won’t fix it, or can’t. It’s clearly a problem for many users spanning several years, and since update time of ET112 is extremely fast, the issue appears to be between Cerbo and Inverter.

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daryl commented · Dec 01, 2022 at 07:17 AM

Isn't that exactly what they are doing in the v3.0 Venus?

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/164781/venus-os-v3004-available-for-testing.html

ESS: increase control speed of systems using todays supported meters (ET112, ET330, EM24, and also the ABB ones) a little. But, for faster meters, such as the EM540 which is not available yet, increase it very significantly. Requires updating the built-in MK3-chip, see next bullet.

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1234enough daryl commented · Dec 03, 2022 at 11:29 AM

I had been using ET112(grid meter) / multiplus ii and was disappointed in the slow response times.

So tried a CT clamp and wow, response is how I would expect- very fast like a second or less.

Great the new update will improve things with ET112, but I doute it will match a CT clamp for speed, especially when the official response is a new energy meter is to improve things more(yet to be released and no idea on cost).

Think I'll stick with CT clamp, as I doute even the new energy meter will match the response time, but we'll wait and see.

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Answer 17 · 2023-03-05T23:29:18Z

usernamepasswordbs answered · Mar 05, 2023 at 11:29 PM

I wish I had read about this before I bought my system including an ET112 end of last year. My ESS system, installed in January, also suffers from shockingly slow reactions to loads switching on and off, 10 or more seconds is usual. I downloaded the latest firmware of course on installation so obviously this issue continues unresolved.

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Paul Beskeen commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 01:27 AM

Try the new Venus 3.0 beta - that claims to have lower latency for reacting to energy meter changes.

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usernamepasswordbs Paul Beskeen commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 03:25 PM

Thanks for the advice. I will try it when it becomes available to me (no option to update showing on my remote console as yet).

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gazza usernamepasswordbs commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 04:05 PM

In Remote console Firmware, have you clicked on Online Updates > Update Feed > Latest release candidate ? Then Check for updates... latest is 3.00 ~ 22

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usernamepasswordbs gazza commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 04:54 PM

Just to clarify: In remote console I go to:

Settings; Firmware; Online Updates; Update feed;

Then I select "Latest release Candidate"; Then I press "Check for updates"?

Still not showing the update. Can I leave auto update on "check only"?

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gazza usernamepasswordbs commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 05:20 PM

Strange? Did you definitely "select" latest release candidate... I have a Multi Gx and that is where I found the 3.00 firmware. Yes you can leave the auto update on check only.

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usernamepasswordbs gazza commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 07:25 PM

Yes definitely "latest release candidate" selected. It seems I'm on 2.92 firmware.

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gazza usernamepasswordbs commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 08:41 PM

This explains the Beta testing, https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ccgx:beta-testing
This is straight from that document

How to join the program?

Go to Settings → Firmware → Online updates → Update to, and there select Latest release candidate. ?

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usernamepasswordbs gazza commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 10:27 PM

Ah, sorry, my mistake. I don't have a Colour Control, only a Cerbo GX. The article doesn't mention the lowly Cerbo :O

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l81ker usernamepasswordbs commented · Mar 22, 2023 at 08:27 PM

cerbo runs Venus OS. V3.00 beta works on the Cerbo just fine

go ahead and give it a go.

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usernamepasswordbs l81ker commented · Mar 22, 2023 at 08:41 PM

I have had connection problems so it wouldn't update before. But this evening I've just updated to 2.93 Large so now I know the updates work again I will try the "candidate" update soon. I also just got my Current transformer so I will try that soon; need to run an extension cable of about 25m so need to think it through first.

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1234enough commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 09:04 PM

Simply try out a CT clamp in place of the et112, CT clamp are under £10.

Unplug the et112 usb from inverter ( leaving et112 ac cabling in place)and plug in the ct clamp, change settings to suit ct clamp. If not happy put it back to et112 and you'll have £10 ct clamp spare. If happier with ct clamp - ebay et112 and you'll be a few ££ up.

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usernamepasswordbs 1234enough commented · Mar 06, 2023 at 10:15 PM

CT clamp for a tenner, where can I get one? I will need to extend it's cable to about 30 metres, Is that possible? can I do the same as I have done with the ET112 cable (soldered cat 5 cable)?

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Answer 18 · 2023-03-07T18:20:57Z

1234enough answered · Mar 07, 2023 at 06:20 PM

This is the one I bought for £9.95 - now just over £10

screenshot-20230307-181917-chrome.jpg (366.5 KiB)

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usernamepasswordbs commented · Mar 07, 2023 at 10:03 PM

Thanks, I will give it a try.

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Answer 19 · 2023-03-09T10:54:26Z

usernamepasswordbs answered · Mar 09, 2023 at 10:54 AM

Got one ordered.

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usernamepasswordbs commented · Mar 20, 2023 at 09:27 PM

Received my current transformer today. Now, how do I go about fitting it? I notice it has a jack plug...

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1234enough usernamepasswordbs commented · Mar 25, 2023 at 04:41 PM

Plug it in here

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screenshot-20230325-163709-word.jpg (265.2 KiB)

Answer 20 · 2023-03-26T06:01:28Z

usernamepasswordbs answered · Mar 26, 2023 at 06:01 AM

Thanks. I'm running a long cable through today for this. Looking forward to seeing an improvement on response times as I was watching my remote console yesterday (not in an obsessive-compulsive way at all) and there must have been a variable load on, maybe the washing machine, and the values were all over the place. I was back-feeding and drawing to and from the grid in the range of hundreds of watts for most of the ten minutes or so that I watched. Not very impressive.

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Answer 21 · 2023-04-01T16:53:25Z

1234enough answered · Apr 01, 2023 at 04:53 PM

Did you try out CT clamp, response time improved?

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usernamepasswordbs commented · May 13, 2023 at 07:26 AM

Ct clamp installed. Watch out for the plug at the MPII that you may have instead of a 3.5mm jack socket. The plug has "buttons" to release the wires and you will also need to release to insert the very thin wires of a cat5 cable or similar. I say watch out because the plug is flimsily put together and mine came apart in pressing the buttons.

Anyway, I can't get it to work properly as the readings for Grid, Loads and battery charging are now all over the place, going from 3kw in one direction to the other in a few seconds with no change in loads.

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Answer 22 · 2023-04-02T11:07:08Z

usernamepasswordbs answered · Apr 02, 2023 at 11:07 AM

Not quite there yet. I still need to install the long cable and I am also installing a few other cables at the same time so that I hopefully don't have to drill more holes for more cables later.

One of the cables I am installing is a cat 5 cable to connect the Cerbo to my router as I am constantly having connection issues. I wouldn't be able to test the response times of the CT at the moment as I have not been able to see realtime data for the last 2 days but I will post my results once it's up and running.

I have read about running the CT along side the ET112, I can't remember what the benefit was of doing that but is this possible/advisable?

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zivillian commented · Apr 03, 2023 at 06:27 PM

My experience is, that the CT may have an offset of several hundred watts at higher or unbalanced load. By using both you get the quick response from the CT and the correct net zero from the ET112.

I started without the CT and was upset that my coffee machine resulted in 2kW consumption during the heating phase followed by 2kW feedin during brewing (all within 1 minute due to the slow regulation) - after adding the CT I can now get a coffee and the meters stays at zero.

I'm using three CT and just extended them with CAT7 cable and RJ-45 connectors over a distance of 15 to 20m.

Be aware, that the cerbo may show unexpected visualizations with questionable values when using both.

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zivillian zivillian commented · Apr 03, 2023 at 06:28 PM

Ok, the link from my last sentence was deleted - https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/140868/et112-current-transformer-ac-load-calculation.html

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usernamepasswordbs zivillian commented · Apr 03, 2023 at 11:05 PM

Thanks Zivillian for that info. I will be hopefully connecting the CT tomorrow or thursday.

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Answer 23 · 2023-04-05T20:15:32Z

okeplay answered · Apr 05, 2023 at 08:15 PM

Not quite there yet. I still need to install the long cable and I am also installing a few other cables at the same time so that I hopefully don't have to drill more holes for more cables later.

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Answer 24 · 2023-05-13T13:45:34Z

usernamepasswordbs answered · May 13, 2023 at 01:45 PM

So I got the CT installed and I changed the ESS > Grid metering > External meter to ESS > Grid metering > Inverter/Charger.

The readings go all over the place, up and down by thousands of watts every second or two as soon as I unplug the "shunt" plug and plugging in the CT doesn't make any difference. I have gone back to the shunt for now and reset back to ESS > grid metering > External meter.

I wonder what I am doing wrong... I have clamped the CT on the neutral line as I don;t have enough space around the live incomer. I assumed this would just read negative instead of positive and would be solved if I refit it "backwards" as it were, but could it cause the (probably) nonsense values that i'm getting?

I am running an ET112 as grid meter.

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usernamepasswordbs commented · Jul 15, 2023 at 11:55 AM

After trying again with:

1) The sensor in the correct orientation and on the live incomer,

2) changing the VE.config setting "external current sensor connected" (tick the box).

3) Remote console/settings/ESS/Grid metering (set to "inverter/charger")

It works !

I have good response and it would appear, accurate data on the VRM.

Edit: Now that I've got it working I had the confidence to "mess around" with it and I put the CT on the neutral line in the theoretical current flow direction (i.e. the arrow on the CT goes towards the supply side) and it appears to be working fine.

The reason I am attaching the CT to the neutral is so that I can fit the cover back on my Consumer Unit/Fusebox, there is no room around the Live wire.

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Answer 25 · 2023-07-04T19:54:02Z

eliotmansfield answered · Jul 04, 2023 at 07:54 PM

Hi - can you use the current clamp method with parallel MP II's - which one do you plug it into?

Thanks.

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Answer 26 · 2023-07-06T17:25:38Z

usernamepasswordbs answered · Jul 06, 2023 at 05:25 PM

I believe you can. Plug it into the master MPII and possibly you need to also plug a jack plug with no wire attached into the slave MPII to disconnect it's internal current sensor.

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Answer 27 · 2024-01-16T16:12:34Z

eliotmansfield answered · Jan 16 at 04:12 PM

Hi, I'm experiencing the slow ESS response using an ET112 and wanted to try using a current clamp - I bought a genuine external clamp and attached it to the master MP2 unit. It worked and increased the reaction speed hugely as noted by others - so far so good.

However, an issue became apparent when I noticed my batteries weren't getting fully recharged overnight, which turns out the inverters were throttling down the charge current because my 7kw immersion heater and my 3kw hot tub were coming on during the overnight charge (low price) window (which are upstream loads, not crossing or connected to the victron)

Once the other loads are reduced/removed - the inverters will resume charging the batteries at the full rate.

It seems that the inverters start reducing the charge current when the total grid draw approaches 50 amps (~12kw). I'm wondering if the Inverter "thinks" that the load is downstream (i.e. on AC Out1/2) because i'm now using an [external] current clamp plugged directly into the master MP2 which makes the MP2 think that the loads are downstream and it's limiting the total draw to protect the contactors inside the unit, despite the aforementioned load not even crossing the MP2's

If i change the configuration back to ET112 control, then it starts working normally again.

My setup is two Multiplus 2'(5000) in parallel with 19kwh of Pylontec batteries and a Cerbo GX, UK Regs.

AC Out1 and 2 are not connected to anything.

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Answer 28 · 2024-01-20T08:42:18Z

usernamepasswordbs answered · Jan 20 at 08:42 AM

Check in VE.Config that "external current sensor" box is ticked, then it knows the measured current is not necessarily passing through the MPII.

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Answer 29 · 2024-03-06T00:54:19Z

Marek answered · Mar 06 at 12:54 AM

In my opinion when using external ct it’s still have to be selected and internal. She just replacing internal one and extending it to remote location. So when ct used before all loads MP thinks there are internal loads. Only way to differentiate loads are using meter then you have two devices external meter and ct just on input so MP knows that loads are on ac in side

Hope this helps

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Victron ESS + ET112 = slow response

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Victron ESS + ET112 = slow response

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