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paul-lannon avatar image
paul-lannon asked

Quattro Parallel Operation

Dear Members,

My first post on the forum and I would be very grateful for any guidance/confirmation that can be provided.

We have just upgraded our boat and the biggest challenge and cost is going to be upgrading the electrical system onboard. I do have a 9.5kva generator and shore power when available. Battery bank is 12V and provides power for all “essential” operational equipment. I intend to provide all other consumers at 220V.

I’ve read that the Quattro’s are capable of parallel operation and intend to upgrade and install 2 x 5000W 12/220 units in parallel providing approximately the same power as the generator and more than normal shore power at 15/30A (I also get a little redundancy if/when issues arise).

Questions:

· Can I run shore power and split to both Quattro’s? I believe the answer is yes

· Can I run generator and split to both Quattro’s? I believe the answer is yes

· Can I take the 220V output from both Quattro’s and common them up before running the common power supply to my 220V distribution board? The point I need guidance on

Best regards

Paul

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2 Answers
JohnC avatar image
JohnC answered ·

Hi @Paul Lannon

The answer is 'yes' to all of your questions. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ve.bus:manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems

Having 10kVA of inverter/charger hanging off a 12V batt bank is somewhat frightening though, and there may be better ways to handle your 12V loads with a 48V bank. Consider..

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paul-lannon avatar image
paul-lannon answered ·

Hi John,

Thank you for the quick response, it’s appreciated.

I don’t anticipate running 10KW, I just want the invertors to be capable of running the full capacity of the generator. This allows me to have a single 220V distribution board and keeps the wiring as simple as possible. The big infrequent user would be air conditioning and with some shore power supplies the battery boost will help get over the tripping of breakers.

Regarding the battery bank voltage I “believe” that the lower the voltage the more flexibility and efficiency is gained with solar? That and the fact that the current bank is 12V is the only reason I have for staying at 12V. I’ll fuse the 12V in to each of the invertors @ 500A and each of the batteries at a little over their rated power

Best regards

Paul

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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

You can also pass trough the full generator power with a single 3000VA Quattro.
It has a 50A transfer switch.

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JohnC avatar image JohnC ♦ commented ·

@Paul Lannon

Yeh Paul, fair enough with the 12V thing. It's the size of the inverter capacity that boggled my mind.

Matthias is right. You don't need inverter capacity to pass through ac input. You need passthrough capacity, and a 5000 Quattro is rated 100Amps for that, either the 120V or 230V models. And then with it's PowerAssist it can add the inverter capacity to that.

In any case I'd start with a single to see if it'll accept your genny input. This is a separate issue, but can heavily impinge on plans if it exists. And you won't know for sure until you test for it.

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paul-lannon avatar image paul-lannon JohnC ♦ commented ·

Hi John, Matthias,

Thank you very much for the responses. I believe that my initial uncertainty regarding parallel operation has been clarified.

My target is to ensure that I have the infrastructure in place to be able to cope with the demand. Your concern regarding battery bank is now making me question my logic.

Current 220V setup:

Is very restrictive with minimal 220V capabilities. Currently “she who must be obeyed” (wife) can put the kettle on then make toast. She cannot do both together without tripping things, this results in her becoming a little frustrated

Dream:

A setup that is effectively the same as home, so that she can stick the washer/dryer on warm up something in the microwave whilst watching the TV with the air conditioning running. This is achievable with the generator running bypassing the invertor (manual switching) at the moment. The air conditioning has soft starters installed for the compressors. This is my reasoning for running 2 x 12/5000 Quattro’s in parallel. The Quattro can also start and stop the generator on demand as required.

Battery Bank:

I have several 12V consumers: Navionics, comms which can probably handle a range od DC voltage to power them, though I would need to check the details. I have a couple of fridges and a freezer which are low power consumers that are only 12V then I have 12V winches (x7) and a windlass that are reasonably high power consumers. Spare parts, replacements are available at 12V but become a little more challenging at 24V and 48V (I’m based in South East Asia). I would really like to keep the 12V system as is.

It would be great if I can get sufficient storage in the battery bank to run the AC in the bedroom overnight without the generator. I’m estimating I would need between 100-150A/hr to achieve this, but I want to do real world testing.

I intend to use Victron: LiFePO4 Battery 12,8V/300Ah - Smart (BAT512130410) starting initially with 4 batteries with the capacity (physical space) to increase to 12 batteries. Yes I realise this is a huge amount of amps and will make the design of the busbars critical for sizing and fusing (will be done professionally).

I then need to think about charging with solar, alternators and generator. Real world testing will define the direction taken.

Do you see an issue with the battery bank sizing?

Best regards and once again thank you for the feedback

Paul

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JohnC avatar image JohnC ♦ paul-lannon commented ·

@Paul Lannon

Batt bank sizing will always be an issue, especially with an aircon and a SWMBO. :)

Only you can decide where to head, it's only money, hey?

What I do with my 12V loads is run a separate bank for them, charged from my 48V bank or genny. Either with an Orion dc>dc converter or a 230V ac charger. They get an easy life, with a soft charge and load. Old batts, 900Ah @ 12V. And there ain't no way I'd ever leave 48V for my house 5000 Multi. Been there before.

But you get to choose your own system, and there are at least some options. I wish you well with your choices..

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paul-lannon avatar image paul-lannon JohnC ♦ commented ·

Hi John,


Thanks for the advise. I will now ponder 48V house with 12V auxilary to understand what I can do

Best regards

Paul

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