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stocksy avatar image
stocksy asked

Lithium Starter Battery

Hi,

I've received some equipment to upgrade my boats electrical system. However the company have sent me the wrong battery (100ah drop-in lithium) - should be 100ah Victron smart.

Anyway, they are going to do a swap out, but I was thinking if it would be possible to use it as my starter battery and maybe run a few other things from it - deck wash, nav lights...

My system will have 4x 100ah Victron Lithium batteries for the house bank. This is connected to a 12/3000/120 multiplus.

The solar MPPT and Alternator are connected to a 85ah agm battery and that connects to a cyrix li-ct in order to charge the house bank when charge is available.

What I'm thinking is to do the same with the MPPT, but run it through a Battery protect and have the ignition wire for the balmar external regulator also go through a small battery protect - both will be connected to the BMS charge disconnect that I have routed through my BMV 712 relay and set to disconnect at 14.2v.

Main concern is that currently when the Cyrix disconnects when solar charge is occurring the starter gets a quick dose of around 15volts before the MPPT reduces current.

Will the BP catch this quick enough in order to stop it getting to a lithium starter battery?

I don't think the same will occur with the alternator as once the regulator ignition wire goes out the stop off current should be instant, but say if you think I'm wrong.

Hope you can clear this up and maybe give alternatives I haven't thought of.

Thanks,

Michael


MPPT ControllersLithium BatteryBattery Protectstarter battery
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stocksy avatar image stocksy commented ·

Think I've found my answer. With regards to the BPs for the solar/regulator. That still seems like a workable option.

However the maximum continuous discharge rating for the battery is 100amps and the max pulse is 200A (<3S°C) , but not 100% sure what that means.

Anyway my engine has a 1.6Kw starter, so will take 133amps when cranking, so don't think the battery will handle it.

Feel free to comment, but think that could be then end of this plan :(

Michael

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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 stocksy commented ·

The max pulse is admissible peak of current for a short time (more or less 5 sec)

I've draw my setup here.... will be upated soon, this one is the first test version :

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/185083/orion-dc-dc-charger-replaced-by-a-mppt-charger.html

Xavier


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6 Answers
ejrossouw avatar image
ejrossouw answered ·

@stocksy There are some test on youtube where the capability of Lithium as starter batteries and it certainly can be used. The downside is that the battery won't last very long as unlike with LA, heavy discharge is not something they like. So, it can be done, but it is not ideal.

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stocksy avatar image stocksy commented ·

Thanks will take a look. Also noticed that the charge current is on 20A on the battery, so definitely not going to work. Will stick to what I have as a starter and maybe get a larger one that can do lights, water pumps etc...


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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw stocksy commented ·

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXwJpPxEJ2E

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dazey77 avatar image
dazey77 answered ·

I have lithium batteries in both my motorbikes. They last a lot longer than lead acid! One bike has had the lipo for about 10 years and its still working. They work fine, and are a lot smaller and lighter. The only issue is that they don't much like the cold. If its cold out, you have to put a drain on them to get them a little warm and then start the engine. On my little one (alternator only lights), I turn the fan on, the big one turn the headlights on while I unlock it.

The self discharge is also basically nothing. The bikes have no alarms, can leave the a month and they are still charged. Be a few weeks with lead acid

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xavier-64 avatar image
xavier-64 answered ·

Hello,
I'm testing a lithium battery (5Ah-300A of Cranking Current) with my Dometic diesel Genset as I do not have space for a Lead Acid battery. It works quite good, The main trouble is in Automatic Mode, the genset is consuming the battery in a week ! So embedded function of automatic start to refill the batterry fail as the battery is too low and the setting are done for the genset an a Lead Acid battery.

The battery must stay around 13,3 V to get all power and to power onthe Genset. I've placed a starter assistant with a 24/12 70A Orion DC/DC converter And it works OK (my RV truck has a 24V circuit).

The plan is to activate the assistant with the cerbo gx while requesting my RV installation need the genset to be started or the battery voltage is <13,2V and need a charge maintenance.

But I would like to keep the lithium battery correctly charged first.

I'm looking for a standard small Victron IP65 charger (12/7A) in low power mode (2A) but requiring to have the 230V and a battery voltage and temp linked with Bluetooth to prevent low temperature lithium charge mode.

Or an Orion DC/DC converter/charger but the trouble is the output current needed for the lithium batterie... 2A max...

So one question ... is it possible to setup it with the orion DC/DC converter/charger devices ?

https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart-non-isolated



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Nev avatar image
Nev answered ·

Any inbuilt BMS would probably be the limiting factor.

Our 4 cell 300Ah LiFePO4 battery with no current limiting BMS attached has both started our 3.9l turbo diesel engine perhaps thousands of times and powered the motorhome for the last 9 years of fulltime travel.

Capacity is checked annually at C/10. It can still deliver 4000Wh (c300Ah).

Side note: Since the original careful top balance cell balancing has never proved necessary. Maximum from any charge source is 14.1V.

A recent forced charge to 14.5V at 30A (about 15 seconds).

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xavier-64 avatar image
xavier-64 answered ·

Hello,

With my genset case, the point is the space dedicated to the battery (150mm x 90 mm x 95 mm). This motorbike battery nodel (Electhium YTZ14S-BS) has, I suppose en embedded BMS) but with no Bluetooth or wire connection. So ... managing the charge is not easy !

So a correct charging current is around between C/3 and C/4 of 64Wh or 5.3Ah.... is between 1,76 A and 1,32 A... Still looking for Victron product/solution to be able to handle that in an automatic mode..

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xavier-64 avatar image
xavier-64 answered ·

Hello,

here my reflection abour the Genset batterie managment with an MPPT

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/185083/orion-dc-dc-charger-replaced-by-a-mppt-charger.html

Xavier.

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