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aasgardvidar avatar image
aasgardvidar asked

Victron/Simpbms/Tesla Setup Van build

Hi.

Starting a new van build and have some questions regarding battery setup.

I have 1 Tesla model s module (might upgrade to 2 in the future), I'm using Victron Buck boost dc dc 100a for alternator charging and a Mltiplus 3000w inverter.

For BMS I want to use the SIMP BMS together with a Victron gx type, this is where I have some questions and in need of some tips.

Anyone in here that uses a similar setup? Experiences?

Do you use contactors, precharge contactors as fail-safe system or Victron battery protect?

Current sensor via simp bms or victron battery monitor?

Charge enable/disable for temperatur high low, any way to trigger a heating pad?

Anyone tried simp with the cerbo gx?

A lot of questions here. Not much info on the simp bms/victron setup.


MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Chargercerbo gxBMS
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basti avatar image basti commented ·

Hello.


Just found your question. Am building something similar. Am also debating the current sensor question right now - did post a question here.

What sensor did you go for, and did you connect it to the Cerbo, or to SimpBMS. Any experience/thoughts an the sensor setup you currently use? Would you build it different in the future?

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Justin Cook avatar image
Justin Cook answered ·

@aasgardvidar, Victron will not support (for obvious reasons) any used battery system; neither Tesla batteries nor the SIMP BMS to which you refer are supported devices, so although you may or may not be able to get them to work within a Victron system, you also may or may not void some or all of the connected-devices' warranties by so trying.

For a complete list of Victron-supported batteries/battery systems, please see this list. Using any battery or other component outside of this list may or may not work, but will be unsupported by your Victron distributor and, as mentioned, runs the risk of causing unexpected behavior within the system and/or voiding warranties, so regrettably you're very much on your own if you choose this route.

Furthermore, given the very high possibility of thermal runaway in Tesla batteries, since they're not the safe and stable LFP chemistry that is the current standard in mobile use, you're definitely running several very significant risks by doing this and I very strongly advise that you re-evaluate your current planned system.

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socaladventure avatar image socaladventure commented ·

I looked up all the batteries on that list but hard to find many that are in the US and also a decent price. There were a couple options that looking interesting but they are 48V. What is the best way to charge a 48V system with the alternator? I dont see any 12V to 48V converters through victron. Anyone have any product suggestions?

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littlewiggler avatar image
littlewiggler answered ·

Updated Jun 18, 2020 for changes:


There are many folks using Tesla/SimpBMS/Victron. As Justin said you need to be careful. The SimpBMS makes it pretty straight forward if you have a complete Victron system.

NOTE - the information below is for informational purposes only. I won't give any settings, just an overview. I used the following article as a starting point - <edit> note that there is no BMS in this example - possible safety issue </edit> : https://www.mortonsonthemove.com/toms-tech-blog/updated-tesla-module-rv-installation

I consulted the SimpBMS and CCGX manuals for everything else. The only thing not really documented is how the entire system works. I try to explain that below.


System:

  • Single Tesla S 233 AH battery
  • SimpBMS in ESS Mode
  • Main and PreCharge Contactors connected to the SimpBMS
  • 1 LEM-CAM300 Sensor connected to the SimpBMS
  • Victron CCGX
  • Victron 24v MultiPlus 3000
  • Victron Smart 150/35 MPPT
  • Victron Smart BP 100
  • Victron BMV 712 (not needed with the SimpBMS - left over from my prior setup)
  • Victron Orion 24/12/70 (overkill, I can only pull a max of 30amps)
  • DPST 24v relay
  • 24v Temp relay to power on a battery warmer


The SimpBMS is connected to the CCGX via VE.Can

The MPPT and BMV 712 are connected to the CCGX via VE.Direct

MultiPlus connected to the CCGX via VE.Bus (CCGX is also in DVCC mode)

MPPT battery line connected to the Smart BP100 (relay allows charging when closed) THIS IS IMPORTANT - it can only be used one way.

Relay on the CCGX drives the DPST relay

DPST relay enables charging on the MultiPlus and enables the BP to allow the MPPT controller to charge (see above)

With this configuration all battery voltage settings and alarms are done on the SimpBMS console. As a backup, I programmed the settings into each Victron unit.

How it all works:

The SimpBMS provides all voltages from the battery and sends any alerts to the CCGX while in DVCC mode. The CCGX relay is set to open when an alert is received and opens the DPST disabling MPPT Charging via the BP100 and stops the MultiPlus from charging as well.

While in DVCC mode the MultiPlus and MPPT settings are not used. The SimpBMS appears as a Smart Battery and directs the charging voltages and the CCGX prioritizes the MPPT over Shore power if both are available.

If anything goes critical SimpBMS will disengage the Contactors disconnecting the battery from the entire Victron system.


Connection Path:

Battery +

Switch

200 Amp fuse

Precharge Contactor (Connected to SimpBMS) -> Resistor

In parallel to precharge Contactor a Main contactor

Positive Bus Bar

  • MultiPlus (Charge enable monitored by Aux1 input from relay)
  • Relay Power
  • CCGX Power
  • BMV712 Power
  • 24v Temperature controlled relay for warming blanket
  • Orion 24/12 converter out to a 12v positive bus bar

Negative Bus Bar

Shunt

LEM-Can 300 (Connected to SimpBMS)

Battery -


MPPT Path

Battery +

BP 100 in

(Switch controlled by relay)

BP 100 Out to the positive bus bar


I am using a buck converter off of the Tesla to downstep to 12V and feed it to the SimpBMS unit. I added a cheap AC trickle charger for charging the generator battery.

Hope this helps.

John



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update: the post this reacts to has been edited, so not all remarks below are still relevant:

---

Hi @LittleWiggler

I like your setup...but...please mention that the link you gave is of an unsafe system without a bms.

on your system:

-you -do- need a pre-charge system, you -will- damage your contactor, and that is potentially dangerous (it either welds closed, and/or provide a higher resistance so it can overheat / melt.

please read:

https://www.gigavac.com/application-notes/power-products/pre-charge-circuits-and-capacitors

http://liionbms.com/php/precharge.php


about powering the BMS, you can use two diodes to feed from either the load (inverter) side (when there is shore-power) or the charge (MPPT) side to a smal dc-dc converter to power the BMS


instead of contactors, you can also use a shunt-trip instead, this is a manual reset situation (breaker with shunt trip attached), here you can also use a manual pre-charge btw.
https://www.orionbms.com/manuals/pdf/parallel_strings.pdf

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aasgardvidar avatar image aasgardvidar commented ·

Thank you so much for the informative reply. This helps a lot! Good luck on your install..

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sacx avatar image sacx commented ·

Thank you for all the details.I'm switching from lead acid batteries to LiIon and I'm building almost the same setup like you (the difference is in the inverter which is a Phoenix 24/3000 not Multiplus).

I also have 4 questions regarding simpBMS:

1. What pins do you use for commanding contactors? (the simpBMS documentation is not very straight forward, and in my opinion I believe I need to use pins 4 and 5 for main contactor and precharge and a pin for command of BP100)

2. Do you use contactors with economizer?

3. Do you use diodes for contactors?

4. Did you find a way to power the simpbms directly from the charger?


Thank You

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sacx avatar image sacx commented ·

When you configure the Battery Capacity did you put the entire capacity like 232Ah or you just go lower a little bit ?

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