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porcini avatar image
porcini asked

Pylontech (with needed ESS?) in an offgrid-installation

Hello,

in the Victron product compatibility-list the pylontech batteries are listed to only can be used in an ESS-system. I think this is necessary of the CAN.Bus-Communication. This means that communication only works with the ESS assistant (why)?

I have to wait further 6 months for grid-connection to be built. For that time I want to build a small DC-Coupled PV and a Multiplus with Pylontech-Batteries. A big AC-coupled 30kWp-PV will follow next year. Since I wanted to install a Victron-ESS anyway I am wondering if I could use the pylontech also in an offgrid installation until the grid is ready?
Alternatively I wanted to install the ESS-Assistant offgrid and hoped i can use the pylontech without discharging them to 0% when grid isn't available at no time. I also don't know if a generator would be accepted in the AC-In then when a grid code has to be chosen.

I red that ESS shouldn't be used in an offgrid-installation neither. I know that ESS doesn't make sense in that situation, but it has du be used to use the pylontechs?
So is there a solution to use these components until grid will be available?


Thank you!

ESSPylontechoffgrid
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4 Answers
boekel avatar image
boekel answered ·

for feature readers, ESS no longer needed. DVCC is automatically enabled when it is correctly connected:

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom

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rene-schouten avatar image
rene-schouten answered ·

Hello Porcini, I 'm using a set off 2 pylontech 2000B with a Easy solar 3000 now for half a year off grid as you proposed, I configured it as if an ESS system but with no grid attached. The Pylontech protects itself for not discharging to far, but also the inverter can switch off loads at 2 alarm levels.

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porcini avatar image porcini commented ·

Great! Do you know if these are active balanced or passive balanced, too?

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abay avatar image
abay answered ·

Hi Folks. I now have 9 installations that are running Victron Multis & Pylontechs that are all off grid and working well. The oldest one was installed 16 months ago and the most recent just last week. Battery bank sizes range from 2 to 15 x US2000B (the most recent ones have US2000 Plus which is basically a firmware upgrade of the 2000Bs). All of the inverters are either Multiplus 48/3000 or 5000s.

One of the systems started out with just one Pylon and an EasySolar 48/3000 and I had to install a "soft start"/inverter pre-charge switch in order to charge the caps in the inverter prior to closing the main battery breaker without overloading the Pylon (not ideal but it worked). This system was subsequently upgraded with a second Pylon when my customer was able to afford to do so.

The biggest system is 3 phase, with a Multi 3000 on each phase and an AC coupled Fronius Symo 8.2.3-M on the AC output side. There are also 3 x Victron MPPTs with about half the PV DC coupled. Total PV is 18.6kW and total battery capacity is 36kWh (33kWh usable) as 15 x Pylontech with a Pylontech communications hub in order to interface all of the battery CAN bus ports with the CCGX.

I started out using the ESS software as Rene describes above, but once the DVDC option became available and supported off-grid installations, I migrated all of my sites to this firmware. The only assistant that I run is the "AC coupled PV assistant" on sites that have AC coupling.

For the sites with small battery banks (<3 Pylons), one has to be mindful of the current limitations and ensure that the system owner is too! However the batteries will shut down to protect themselves if need be.

I feel like I have tested the compatibility of this equipment pretty thoroughly and I don't see why it shouldn't be endorsed by either Victron or Pylontech for off grid installations. I have no doubt that it will be in the near future.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone else who has experience with Pylontech & Victron equipment in an off grid installation and if they have come across any issues.

@Porcini

@Rene_Schouten

@mvader (Victron Energy Staff)

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lief ryan avatar image lief ryan commented ·

hi, i've been looking into setting up an off grid system using pylontech batteries and a victron multiplus, a was told by the equipment distributor that it wouldn't work but they didn't really explain why, so its good to hear that you have done it and its working well, would it be ok to contact you again for some advice?

Thanks


@Abay

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offgridsystems avatar image
offgridsystems answered ·

Hi Abay. Thanks for that background on using Pylontech's . I have many off grid customers who want the convenience of lithium Ion, but still wince when I give them the cost of BYD's. The Pylontech's are lower cost by £150-£200 per module, so could work out well.

I'll get a couple of Pylontechs modules and try them out.

I think the Victron worry is that the Multi or quattro will simply keep running till the Pylontechs shut down and there is no confirmed way of easy restarting for the customer as is on the BYD's?

@Abay

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Pylontech is now fully support for offgrid. I will update my earlier answer from before this was the case.

Please read the manual here:

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom

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Keith Arnold avatar image Keith Arnold Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi Guy. Is a GX device required for RS Smart Solar with Pylontec Batteries? The document does not have the RS on it.

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ Keith Arnold commented ·

Yes, GX device is required. I’ll ask about getting it added specifically.


Inverter RS has allow to charge and allow to discharge contacts, so something might be technically possible with some models of Pylontech, but untested and unsupported by Victron.

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christian-valdivia avatar image christian-valdivia Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi Guy & Keith:

I'm about to put together an ESS using Quattro 8k with US3000C batteries. This is intended to be mounted inside a trailer that will travel dirty roads (trailer is towed by a 4x4 pickup) quite often and I have been suggested to install the batteries inside a standard server rack. Have you had any experience installing an ESS in such conditions? If I were to use a server rack, would I need to leave empty space units between each battery? Any advice you can give me will be more than useful.

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