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Nicholas Wessels avatar image
Nicholas Wessels asked

Programmable Relay Assistance - Turn on Ac2 during grid outage

I would like to do the following with a programmable relay on our Quattro 48/5000 with CCGX running ESS:

By default, if there is a grid outage, AC2 automatically gets turned off by the Quattro. We have non-critical loads like pool pump, washer, aircons on Ac2.

If there is sufficient PV power as per the below screenshot then I would like to turn on the AC2 relay (AC2 relay is on in the below screenshot):

So these are the conditions I would like to use for the programmable relay:

Turn the relay ON if:

1. If battery dc voltage is over 50v (indicates we have PV power)

2. AC Loads are NOT greater than 2500w

3. There are no LED Low Battery warnings

4. AC1 is not available (grid outage)

Turn relay OFF if:

1. Battery dc voltage drops below 48v (no PV or low battery)

2. There are any low battery pre-alarms

3. AC1 is not available (grid outage) - this is so that Ac2 does not get turned off when there is grid power and we are running ESS

Below is a screenshot of how I have the assistants configured now:

What is happening now is that when there is no AC1 available (grid outage) then AC2 still stays off.

If I remove the assistants circled in red in the screenshot, then AC2 turns on during a grid outage.

There must be a logic conflict somewhere here.

If anyone see anything I've done wrong here, I would really appreciate some assistance.

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter ChargerESSCCGX Color Control
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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

You are using 'when AC-in not available for 10 seconds' in both relay settings.

I think you don't want to have the 'not available for 10 seconds' in the 'off' relay, and you want 'when AC-in [is] available for 10 seconds' in the 'on' relay.

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Nicholas Wessels avatar image Nicholas Wessels Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) will this not result in AC2 being turned off even when there is AC1 (grid power) available? When ESS is running battery voltage can drop below XX volts even when Grid Power is available.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

This is how I do it in my boat, a bit simpler but it works for me (lithium battery that can take the power easily)


screenshot-2020-02-06-134325.png (25.9 KiB)
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Nicholas Wessels avatar image Nicholas Wessels commented ·

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) thank you.

Will your above settings not however turn Ac2 off when DC Input voltage is lower than 51 volts EVEN when there is Grid Power (in your case Shore Power) available?

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Nicholas Wessels commented ·

Hi @Nicholas Wessels

No, It will go 'on' when AC-in is available, and/or when voltage above 51,5V

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Nicholas Wessels avatar image Nicholas Wessels Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) this is what I have now configured and running below:

So we just lost grid power and DC is below 50v but AC2 is now still on:

Not sure what I am doing wrong?

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john-hagtharp avatar image john-hagtharp Nicholas Wessels commented ·

The programmable relay assistant is begging for comprehensive documentation. I've posted questions here that have been left unanswered.


That said, I think your current problem is documented somewhere. When you specify multiple conditions within a single instance of the assistant, it's an "OR" condition. The action will be performed if any of them are true.

AC2 is probably still on because the load is under 2500W. Even if the load was higher, it would be on because there has been no low battery pre-alarm.


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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ john-hagtharp commented ·

here's some information:


https://www.victronenergy.com/live/assistants:start#combining_multiple_assistants

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Nicholas Wessels avatar image Nicholas Wessels Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

This programmable relay assistant should allow the option to select the operator for each of the conditions.

So there should be an option to select "AND" or "OR".

Right now it makes very little sense the way it works. It is almost random which condition is used first. So at the moment there is no reason to select multiple conditions because they use "or".

In the below example AC2 will always be on when I select:

1. If battery dc voltage is over 50v (indicates we have PV power)

2. AC Loads are NOT greater than 2500w

3. There are no LED Low Battery warnings

4. AC1 is not available (grid outage)

Because one of the above conditions will ALWAYS be met.

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Pantelis Zirinis avatar image
Pantelis Zirinis answered ·

Hello,

I am having a similar problem. I would like the ac2 to turn on I either:

- Have external power.

- My batteries are charged more that 80%


Problem is the OR logic does not let me accomplish the above.


I then tried to create a 3 assistant. Use ACOut2 -> Set Relay to on -> when AC1 is available for 60 seconds. I tried to move this one higher on the list to prioritise, but I am still not getting ACOut when AC1 is available. This is probably because one of the other conditions are not met.


Have you found any solution?

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ewalderasmus avatar image ewalderasmus commented ·

Please post more information on the assistants you used. As it's impossible to find the error with only one of the conditions.

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Nicholas Wessels avatar image
Nicholas Wessels answered ·

I think the problem comes in when you try to have multiple conditions under each assistant. So I have two Assistants that I had to simplify as below:

1. Programmable Relay 1

  • Use ACOut 2 relay
  • Set Relay off
  • State of charge - internal battery monitor (checkbox)
  • When SOC lower than 70%

2. Programmable Relay 2

  • Use ACOut 2 relay
  • Set Relay On
  • Ac Input (checkbox)
  • State of charge - internal battery monitor (checkbox)
  • When ANY AC available for 60 seconds
  • When SOC higher than 75%

Here is a screenshot:


1615977006206.png

The above seems to be working on my system which has a 5kva Quattroa, 20kwh Lithium Ion Battery and 9kwh of PV.


1615977006206.png (41.3 KiB)
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harold avatar image
harold answered ·

I have it like this on my boat:

1615976421287.png


In which AC1 is shore power, AC2 is generator.
AC2 out I want to be switched on wehn:
AC1 shore power is on and stable

or

SOC is almost full

or

AC2 Generator is running for 30minutes (So most of the consumption and or charging is done)


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Ondra avatar image
Ondra answered ·

Hi,

critical loads appear on Remote Control without ESS ?

Or is it only displayed in ESS mode?

Thank you for the information

Ondra

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