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amhazing avatar image
amhazing asked

Grid Password?! Are you kidding! Just to setup a stock standard Generator AC Supply?

For you to understand why this is such a big deal - we have bushfires on three sides and the smoke is so bad that we can't get solar.


Our next step is to remove the MultiPlus from the circuit and go straight to GenSet because we need a bloody password just to configure our MultiPlus 2 to work with a Generator?

From the information online and the prompt in VE Configure we need a password inorder to configure the MultiPlus 2 to use the Grid / other setting in order to get the gen set working as the AC input -right?

Just as an aside; why on earth did you put that under Grid menu when we're using the device in an Offgrid situation for gods sake! Using a Local Genset is the opposite of Grid! Surely you're not going to do "power back" to a gen set right?

Everything else has been plug and play to a large degree so to run into this situation in an emergency that requires us to get back to the really nice bloke who sold us the equipment in the first place is beyond a joke.

I'm stuck now needing to urgently wait on him responding to my urgent calls and emails when no doubt he is also dealing with his own issues. Common guys!

What's the bloody password so I can setup my gen set to charge batteries that have been running fine off solar until the smoke made the sky go red and reduced the solar down to practically nothing!

Could do with an answer pretty before the battery runs out over the next few hours... in the middle of bushfires and heatwave.


H

Generator
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4 Answers
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

Hi @amhazing,

Given you're in a life threatening emergency, I'll get in touch, please check your email.

The Grid code is required whenever the unit is changing how it interfaces with the AC input, and the method of detection, enabling or disabling export or control.

It should not be required out of the box on a new off grid installation. Only when making changes to an existing unit that has already been configured by the installer. There are some pretty serious implications for an incorrectly configured Multi connected to a generator, or the grid. So there needs to be some protections in place.

The grid code itself is given to installers during the Victron training that covers the safely aspects of these changes.

These protections are also required by Law in some regions, such as Australian Standard AS4777.2:2015 Clause 6.5:

  1. Security of operational settings The internal settings of the demand response or power quality response modes of the inverter shall be secured against inadvertent or unauthorized tampering. Changes to the internal settings shall require the use of a tool and special instructions not provided to unauthorized personnel. NOTE: Special interface devices and passwords are regarded as tools. Compliance shall be determined by inspection.

It is also explained in the opening paragraph of the VEConfigure manual - this tool is not intended for end users, but professional installers. The installer can then determine to authorise someone and pass on the code, if the person working on the equipment understands the risks and rules regarding AC generation supplies, and the consequences of making a mistake to that configuration. As the installer of record, they will ultimately be the one responsible if the unit is incorrectly installed and configured and causes an issue.

Apologies for your situation, it's not Victron's intention to make life harder for informed individuals that need to make changes to their systems. I know from my own experience how frustrating it can be to be limited by an arbitrary control that prevents getting the job done and getting on with the other things that need doing. However the current controls and protocols are approved by the Standards bodies and are necessary to make our equipment compliant and able to be sold, so this is the way that it is.

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amhazing avatar image amhazing commented ·

Thank you so much!

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amhazing avatar image
amhazing answered ·

Thank you again for responding at such short notice - and on a Saturday - I've been able to change the config (thanks to the online FAQs etc) and gen set is now working!

Fire fast approaching Bredbo - and ash falling from the sky now but so far no embers. Fingers crossed it'll pass us by.

regards,

H

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Thanks for reporting back, happy to hear you don't have to worry about the power now at least.

We had our community threatened by the bushfires a few months ago. It really tests the limits, good luck, and stay safe.

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amhazing avatar image
amhazing answered ·

Thanks Guy for the response.

yes - fully accept it's our problem that we needed to use the code urgently at the last minute and without the installer present :( and hence we wear the full responsibility for misconfiguration possibility.

Thank you for being flexible enough given our current emergency to enable us to get it to work anyway (and having the config information available online to work it out without the installer in an emergency) - We are very happy with our Victron dealer and the support he's provided but the situation is a little unusual and am guessing we're not the only ones dealing with the Bushfire Apocalypse currently going on.

Whilst not a licensed installer, I have an Electrical engineering degree and extensive IT background (my dad is a sparky too) - so enough of a grounding in the theory of it all to workout VE Config and what the settings all mean and the various safety issues.

But even then I would have been completely stuffed if you didn't provide the VRM ability to upload and download config files!! (seems strange I know to upload a config file all the way over the satellite and back down to the CGX but it has been a life saver - Didn't have the MK3 USB to VE.Bus converter thingy in order to work direct)

The original factory default settings as discussed in the various FAQs didn't work for the gen set that was available. We could see the AC input was present but it wasn't kicking in. Wasn't until I switched to the different config/s suggested in the FAQ that it came good.

We hadn't configured it at the initial install because we fully intended to set it all up with a new Gen Set that shouldn't have needed the bonus settings that you've thankfully provided to allow the "little" 3.8kv cheap and cheerful generator that was purchased from "Masters" on special back in the day.

Thanks again for your flexibility. You guys are definitely on our preferred vendor list now.

regards,

H

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karl-vesterling avatar image
karl-vesterling answered ·

I'm also running into the same problem, albeit without the emergency and dire consequences. The vendor ABSOLUTEY REFUSES to supply the password even though it's an off grid situation, and subsequently I cannot get ESS working.

Worse yet, when I was sold the equipment I was told that this would be a possibility, but alas now that I own it, two things about it I'm not happy with.

1.) It would NOT work with my generator, so after I got a bigger unit that'd work with the 19A limitation (mentioned below) I find out that the units anti-Islanding is causing the new generators breaker to trip. I still can't set up ESS, and GUESS WHAT! You still need a grid code to get it working...

2.) 19A limitation on amperage input (can't go any lower) - This would have been nice to know!!!!

So far I'm about $10K into the project, and NO DAMN JOY... I'd put the Outback system back in and deal with the shortcomings of that, but sadly the labor involved is definitely prohibitive... BUT, at least that system worked! I'm getting really sick of resetting the breakers. All I need to do is set grid to other and the problem goes away...


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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi @Karl Vesterling,

I can sense the frustrations growing.

Installation of the generator and an inverter charger absolutely requires a qualified and licensed electrician. Most larger generators will require internal modifications to remove hard wired earth neutral links when hard wired into a Victron power system to prevent nuisance tripping of RCDs from multiple earth to neutral link paths.

I wrote a post here with some more information about the possible configurations and the behaviour of our equipment.

End users are NOT expected to understand, or undertake this work, it comes with potentially life threatening risks during installation, or in the event of a fault if incorrectly installed. I believe most countries in the world forbid this kind of work by anyone other that a qualified electrical tradesperson.


ESS is NOT for use in Off grid systems, - which might explain your installers reluctance to provide you with the password to enable it - this is described on page 1 of the ESS manual here.


For your 2nd point, It is possible to reduce the AC input current limit, but requires disabling the power assist features. There is more information about that here.


Beyond that, Please articulate your ongoing frustrations into this support request, and a copy will be sent to your distributor via Victron, perhaps there can still be something done to configure your system to get it working reliably - http://professional.victronenergy.com/support/

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karl-vesterling avatar image karl-vesterling Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Ok, forget the ESS. I still need the grid passcode so that I can stop tripping the breaker on the generator. The 1800W of solar on the roof is fine as it is. I'll code the logic using MQTT data from the cerbo.

THERE IS NO GRID CONNECTION... It's a very quiet 4500W generator, and each time the Victron tries to test for loss of mains, guess what? Trip... Gone...

Installing a bigger generator IS NOT possible since noise is a huge factor.

Why is this important?

A good number of places here in the US (State & National Parks) have absolutely forbidden generators (for noise reasons). They also have NO power provided. If no one hears the generator, there's no complaint. The idea is to run it for as minimal a time as possible at the lowest rate of consumption possible to replenish the batteries as efficiently and quietly as possible making up for any deficiency that the solar did not provide. (Clearly later in the evening, and perhaps early in the AM if batteries are critical)

This is absolutely silent, you cannot hear it even if you're next to the bus. If I put in a bigger generator, then the issue is noise. (Gas DC turbine generator and a charge controller would be nice, vent it directly upwards through a baffle, but the heat... too much heat... You get into all sorts of fantastical ceramic insulation which doesn't take too kindly to years of being bumped around. Not a big fan of fires where they shouldn't be. So internal combustion and custom exhaust it is.)

I just need this thing to stop popping the breaker on the generator. In order to do that I need to disable loss of mains detection, and the ONLY way to do that is either:

1.) Put in the grid passcode so that I can disable it on L1 (best idea)

2.) Run the generator into a MeanWell 48V supply and push directly into the 48V DC Bus (presently the solution, but cannot adjust the load.)

I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS SINCE 1988, I FULL WELL KNOW THE INTRICACIES OF GENERATORS, BONDED NEUTRAL, FLOATING NEUTRAL. I've even diagnosed problems for data centers with regard to their 3 phase backup generators and UPS systems that the so called "professionals" couldn't figure out. (software escapes most electricians)

I'm not some jackass, I paid for the functionality because I engineered a solution with it, and come to find now that the functionality I paid for is being denied. Not happy... Please provide the pass code. I understand you're trying to protect people from their own idiocy, but I'm not a darwin award candidate. I like life... Sometimes it can be frustrating though.

For such a fine product, I find it incredibly hard to understand WHY the best features are crippled by the irrational fear of liability... The product you sell could well end up being your competitors.

Do I need some sort of Victron certified Training? Where? When? May I please have the pass code after?

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