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nwallette avatar image
nwallette asked

Suggestions for solar storage + grid

I have been researching options for providing power to a detached building, but there are a few things I'm unclear about, and would like some suggestions from those who might have more experience with the products Victron offers.

I am in NA and will need 120-0-120V split phase. I plan to use solar as my primary source, with a large battery bank -- looking at the LiFePo4 Smart 12V 330AH cells in a 48V series configuration, likely a couple strings in parallel.

At the moment, I have a single 15A 120V run to the building, which COULD be upgraded to 240V (using the two phases from the main building panel), but it wouldn't be trivial. I would like to have the option of using either 120/240V, and would rather use it as sparingly as possible -- perhaps something like a configurable (5A?) current limit to avoid consuming grid power all night to cover the load AND fully charge the batteries, and leaving solar energy on the table all day. (Obviously this will cycle the batteries more, and may be a compromise I decide to tune over time.)

I have looked at the MultiPlus, Quattro, and Phoenix inverter/charger units, which have PowerAssist, and that seems like it does more or less what I want... except it appears to be designed to "boost" the input AC via the batteries, vs. acting as a current-limited charger paired with an always-on inverter, which is more what I'm aiming for. I don't know if the difference is significant, re: duty cycles and so on, and there seems to be more emphasis on the "transfer switch" capability, whereas inverter + charger wouldn't use a physical disconnect at the AC input at all. It seems like my strategy might be more of an abuse of this feature than an intended use.

While I'm on the topic of topology, my personal philosophy has always been to prefer a modular system, both for growth flexibility and to avoid "all eggs in one basket" in case of unit failure. I had planned to start with one inverter (or two, as necessary for split-phase, preferably without an external transformer), and perhaps add additional units for fault-tolerance and load sharing. If I select one of the bespoke inverters (no charger, no grid connection) I could then add separate MPPT and grid charge controllers on the DC side. This strikes me as a fine solution, but it seems the all-in-one units are far more sophisticated, and I'm not sure the separate boxes would have the connectivity with each other and compatible controller solution(s) to maintain the battery SoC, load/charger disconnect, and monitoring. Or at least not as effectively.

Which brings me to my next quandary. VE.bus, VE.Can, VE.Net, VE.Direct... I feel like I need a matrix of what can talk to what, and which interfaces allow for what integration features. It seems like maybe VE.bus is required for paralleling inverters, but I'm honestly not sure, and not even totally positive that some of these aren't the same thing.


A little nudge in the right direction would be appreciated.

gridsolarstorage
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2 Answers
nwallette avatar image
nwallette answered ·

No bites.. okay, so here's how I understand the product line, and the caveats of each:

"Inverter" -- there's a 120V version with 3kVA AC out, but only 24V input... really wanted to run 48V DC. Otherwise, nearly perfect. Supports split-phase and parallel operation, and would allow a modular build with separate (optimized) MPPT and AC charging units. Only downside is some of the dedicated single-purpose units are rather "dumb" -- only relays and analog inputs vs. a data bus. Works, but clunky.

"Inverter Smart" -- has digital interfaces, and there's a 48VDC version, but 230V AC output only, and does not seem to support split-phase AC output.

"MultiPlus" -- there's a 120V version that is only 24VDC, and a 48VDC version that is only 230VAC and neither (apparently?) supports split-phase.

"MultiPlus II 2x120" -- claims to be "designed for North American split-phase," but that's really only for input and passthrough. Will not invert to split-phase, and therefore doesn't allow a single-phase input for charging while providing split-phase inverted out. All 240V loads are dead w/o passing through split-phase input. No good.

"MultiPlus II 120V" -- supports split-phase via 2 units (yay!), and there is a 48VDC model. This is probably the obvious choice. Would need to add a solar MPPT controller direct to DC bus, and figure out integration to synchronize charge control, SoC monitoring, and safety cutoffs. I assume(?) this is possible with a combination of relays and VE.bus? My real concern is whether all the AC line in/out switching and PowerAssist are a reasonable solution for an always-online inverter, with managed (current-limited) AC charging. It doesn't seem like this application is the intended design-goal of this unit. It would probably work, but maybe not a good fit.

"Quattro" -- supports 48VDC and split-phase pairing, but is more unit than I need. Basically appears to be a MultiPlus with more complicated dual AC-in switching. I have no need of a "shore-power only" output, as I WANT all of my loads -- even 240V HVAC -- to be run from battery at all times.

"Multi RS Solar" -- all-in-one AC charger + MPPT + inverter, but does not appear to support parallel units or split-phase out. This would be a more complicated and expensive solution to expand, since everything (solar and AC charging) is replicated every time you add a unit to increase inverter capacity. Not great, and moot, since you can't parallel them anyway.


It looks like I'm either going to have to choose the "Inverter" and cope with higher-current 24VDC banks (perhaps one bank per phase -- which is not ideal), or go with the "MultiPlus II 120V" and deal with the sub-optimal AC-to-AC design philosophy.


Thoughts?

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nickdb avatar image
nickdb answered ·

The best nudge that can be given is towards a skilled supplier who can assist you with your questions.

As mentioned in the guidelines that we ask all new members to read, design topics are not encouraged.

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