question

Graham Owens avatar image
Graham Owens asked

Mandatory firmware updates

Went to check on some details in the victron connect app today, to be greeted with a mandatory update to v3.15 before I can use see any information or make any changes to one my MPPTs. I am completely off-grid, so cannot afford for anything to go wrong - so I have questions.

What makes an update mandatory, who decides this and based on what criteria?

What gives someone at Victron the right to brick a device that I have paid for and works perfectly fine?

Why is there no changelog to indicate what changes are being made to my system by this update (the changelog should be available to read in the app before the update so an informed choice can be made regarding the update, not hidden away in the Victron dealer/support site)

A quick search of these forums show that users are having issues since updating, so how can we trust these manadatory updates? Another search shows difficulty in downgrading again following a mandatory update, are these updates guarenteed not to break our setup? If they do are Victron going to cover the cost of hiring and running a generator until a new working device has been provided by Victron under warrenty for their botched updates?

As far as I can tell, the only reason for a mandatory update would be due to a security failure (some way to bypass the login allowing changes to be made without permission) or a safety concern (something like a charger not shutting off when a charge cycle is complete). If this was the case I woulf be fine with the update, however from the forums it appears this is not the case.


So please be open with us, what is changing in these updates and why are they mandatory for working devices? Is there a safety or security risk that Victron dont want the public to know about? Otherwise there is very little reason for a mandatory update.


"Generally speaking there has also been a long effort to reduce, and hopefully eliminate the requirement of mandatory firmware updates all together. So systems that are working well will not be required to do an update if they don't want to." this quote is from Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) 2 years ago on this forum, yet we are still getting them.


For the avoidance of doubt, I actually really like the Victron product line, both personally and commercially. I have a full victron setup at home, and have installed many, many victron systems for work. I love seeing the updates to the VRM portal, the island image on the mobile app was very cool, and fitted the theme perfectly. I use betavrm.victronenergy.com as my primary VRM seeing all the new features, im not adverse to change. I am strongly opposed to being forced to install updates to a fully functioning system that is my only source of power, with no information on the benefits and no guarentee that I wont be left without power.


My rather negative post above is due to the risks involved in putting a MANDATORY update onto my devices which I rely on, which are working perfectly fine and have done for many years. Im just hoping that Victron doesn't follow in the footsteps of the tech giants, installing a MANDATORY update that either breaks something, or removes features that may be relied upon, then hides behind terms and conditions. It is very simple, I should be presented with a list of changes contained in a firmware update, and have the ability to make a decision if the changes are right for me and my system, or if there is too much risk. Removing my ability to use the product I purchased, and which the Victron Terms and Conditions of Sale make clear is a product that I OWN once payment is complete is disrepectful, and to be fair a pretty shady business practice.

MPPT Controllersfirmware updatesafetysecurity
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4 Answers
nickdb avatar image
nickdb answered ·


Changes are logged in both the firmware release notes for the charger as well as the Victron connect app.

3.15 was made available back in Feb so is mature.

It would not be forced unless it was in the best interest of the user base, or because a required change in the app necessitates it.

You could also downgrade your app to an older release.

The ecosystem moves forward and if you rely on the app/bluetooth combination you are going to need to keep more current with your code, or keep both your app and devices at the same level.

Updating one will inevitably require an update for the other.

EDIT: As per next post this change for the 250/100 rev2 was also mandatory in 6.06, so that is confusing.

In any case, if you have kept your devices unchanged for some time, you will need to keep the software and apps at the same level to avoid issues, else dependencies will develop.

Post edited accordingly.

3 comments
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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

I was also looking when 3.15 got mandatory and it is also marked as mandatory in 6.06, strange.

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

Indeed. Same entry for 250/100 rev2 twice.

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Hi,

To explain the changelog wrt firmware update v3.15:

For official versions of VC:

  1. It was added to VC as optional update per v6.00 - 2024-03-13. For all models.
  2. v3.15 was made mandatory per v6.06 in May, and only for the 250-100 rev2 model.


There is also an entry in the change log of the now running beta version; since that series has been in beta from before May already.


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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

What version are you currently on?

For me these changes are important to prevent unexpected shut-downs, exactly what you want to avoid in your system.

1721318678752.png

https://professional.victronenergy.com/downloads/firmware/

The chance of a device getting bricked due to an update is very very low.
As an installer and service technician I literally updated hundreds or even thousands of devices and I can't remember a single case of a bricked device.

In a forum you will always only find the few people that got problems not the other thousand or millions that updated there devices without any issues.

I most cases a failed update can be repaired by just starting the update again.

If you want to avoid updates you just have to disable the updates for VictronConnect because new FW files are included in VC.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:beta


1721318678752.png (67.1 KiB)
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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

Hi @Graham Owens,

My advice from 2 years ago still stands. Mandatory updates are extremely rare and only considered when the benefits vastly outweigh the inconvenience for everyone.

The previous mandatory firmware release before v3.14/v3.15 was in July 2022.

We actually recommend that people do not update their firmware if everything is working well.

The counterbalance to that general advice is when we do find and fix something important with potentially irreversible consequences if it isn't updated, then we consider making it mandatory.


This specific update to v3.14/v3.15 for the MPPTs helps to prevent unnecessary tripping of the PV Short protection.

Being updated is especially important for some models that did not include a feature to reset this protection again, so once it was unnecessarily tripped then the MPPT would no longer work. This update prevented unnecessary failures.

Prior to the update we saw an increase in our warranty claims for this specific issue. A fix was prioritised, the firmware was released, and made the decision to make this mandatory to prevent further unnecessary failures, and the hassles involved in replacement.

This was not a safety issue, but it did fix an irreversible fault condition.

It's frustrating for those who then had other issues from the 3.15 update, but given the potential for the permanent fault condition with pre-v3.15 versions in some models, we still think it's the right choice.

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Graham Owens avatar image
Graham Owens answered ·

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I agree with a lot of what has been said. As I am sure you could tell, I was pretty frustrated when writing my post.

When I connected to the MPPT to check some values, the page loaded for about half a second before switching automatically to the mandatory update page, with no option but to continue but also no information on what would happen if I continued. It is my understanding that the entire firnware is stored in the app due to issues with potentially flakey internet, so the update can still proceed. It would be nice if the changelog was also stored locally so that internet is not required to see the effects of the update.

This was repeated for my 4 other MPPTs, leaving me feeling vulnerable about my ability to control my power situation.

For some of the reasons stated in the replies above, I will update my MPPTs tonight.

I chose Victron for a reason, I am quite capable of building an off-grid power system for peanuts using cheapo parts off ebay, however I needed a system reliable enough that it would work for my family too, even when I am not available to tinker with it to get it back on following some failure. Victron provided a solid solution that has performed exactly as expected (which I knew it would due to previous work installs), this is why I was so protective of my system.

Is there any way of providing critical (mandatory) updates out-of-band? eg. a mandatory update patch that can be added to perhaps the last couple of release firmwares, but that only contain the critical changes, without also forcing any of the (potentially unwanted) feature additions, removals and changes as part of that mandatory update?

Thanks once again for your fast responses (and actually approving my rant)

1 comment
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We are working on a much improved back end platform to manage the rollout of firmware updates and release notes across our platforms (Vic Pro, VictronConnect, VRM). I am very excited for it, and should address some of your issues.

This platform improvement will also de-couple firmware updates from VictronConnect releases. But now I have already said too much about things that aren't ready to announce, so please know that we really do take this super serious, appreciate the constructive criticisms, want the best possible user experience and aren't going to stop making it better.


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