question

David Robinson avatar image
David Robinson asked

DVCC Charge Limit MPPT 100/30 & Orion XS

I recently swapped my Orion 12/12-30 for an Orion XS and am trying to enable DVCC to prioritize solar over alternator (DC charging).

Firmware (all current I believe)

Orion XS firmware 1.03

SmartSolar MPPT 1000/30 firmware 1.64

Cerbo Firmware 3.40-17 (beta)

Smart Shunt firmware 4.16

DVCC configuration

img-0482.jpeg

  • I am using 300Ah of Battleborn batteries so I have BMS control disabled.
  • I set Maximum charge current to 80A
    (theory being XS 50 + MPPT 30 = 80A should not limit max charge current


Question / Problem?

You can see in this screen shot that the Orion XS is in Absorption and providing 1.20A of charge, and the MPPT is in Float and providing 0A charge.

img-0480.pngI would have expected the oposite, with the solar prioritized and providing a small charge with the Orion at 0A. I say that based on my understanding from reading section 11.4 in the Cerbo GX manual on DVCC.

Goal

My goal is to use solar as much as possible to reduce load on the alternator / engine.

cerbo gxDVCCorion xs
img-0482.jpeg (155.8 KiB)
img-0480.png (312.8 KiB)
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5 Answers
snoobler avatar image
snoobler answered ·

Without ESS, DVCC can't dictate phase of charge. There is still a tendency for the strongest OR most consistent OR most favorably connected charger to finish the charge with other chargers falling to float.


In your case, the MPPT is in float, and the XS is in absorption @ 14.6V. The MPPT can't deliver any current at 14.6V while in float.


It's important to configure your chargers to facilitate your end goal. Ensure the XS has a shorter absorption cycle and possibly even a lower absorption voltage than the MPPT.



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David Robinson avatar image
David Robinson answered ·

Thanks for the reply.
I thought that solar would have been preferred based on what I read about DVCC in section 11.4 of the Cerbo GX manual?

I also was under the impression that now that the Orion XS is on the scene, we could expect the MPPT and DC chargers to "coordinate" since they are both on VictronDirect to the Cerbo GX?

So if all that is wrong, exactly what benefit does DVCC provide?

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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·
This is planned for the XS as a firmware/software upgrade.

The others will throttle output based on total charge parameters in DVCC, but the Orion will dominate.

Maybe reduce its charge/absorption voltage a little below the settings on the other kit.


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snoobler avatar image
snoobler answered ·

I invite you to read the entire DVCC manual, so you can see that there are MANY benefits, but they may not apply to your system, expectations, or "impressions." Please note that your impressions are only accurate if they are explicitly supported in documentation. WANTING something to work a certain way when it says it doesn't isn't relevant.

The obvious ones for you:

Allow all connected chargers to use the shunt-reported open circuit voltage, battery current, and temperature if a probe is installed as well as setting global voltage and current limits.

If you don't want to read the whole manual, please read 11.3.

At no time does 11.4 indicate that DVCC override the chargers' built-in algorithm. In fact 11.3 indicates explicitly that the chargers behave in accordance with their own algorithm. 11.4 merely says that it will prioritize solar. Nor does it indicate anywhere that it "coordinates" charging.

You are focused on an edge case, i.e., there is a whopping 7.74W of power going into your battery, over 50% of your XS output is going to loads - not charging. This DVCC current limit is for CHARGING, not loads. I wouldn't be surprised if this miniscule amount is below any practical threshold of control. I use DVCC/BMS control to limit charging based on temperature. Even with steady loads, I can get 0.3A (@ 52V) of charge bleeding into the battery even when it says 0A limit.

In other words, 7W is noise.

Unfortunately, as I already mentioned, you have configured your system in such a way as to render the MPPT unable to provide current at absorption battery voltage. If you were in the bulk or absorption phase on both chargers, I would expect the solar priority to be in effect, but that has other dependencies as well.

Configure the XS with a shorter absorption period and/or a lower absorption voltage. In retrospect, also configure the MPPT with a very small re-bulk value, so it is likely to trigger a new bulk cycle rather than just stay in float.

The reality is that when LFP batteries hit 3.65V/cell (14.6V), they are almost already full. You pushing 0.5A into your battery at 14.6V is actually detrimental to it. Your 300Ah of BB batteries are at 100% charge at 14.6V and the current has dropped to 15A (0.05C). Any more than that, and you are overcharging, imparting unusable surface charge and potentially plating lithium on the anode, which permanently reduces capacity in tiny increments every time you do it. The only benefit to holding at elevated voltage is to allow for BMS balancing (>14.2V in the case of BB batteries). If you really want to have extended absorption periods, recommend you lower the absorption voltage to 14.2V with a maximum of 1 hour of absorption.


I suggest you reconfigure the chargers as I recommended, and evaluate the solar prioritization at a more meaningful time, i.e., when the battery actually needs to be charged, i.e., below absorption voltage and charge current > 15A.


If you're still not satisfied, VE.Smart networking DOES coordinate charging between VE.Smart connected devices by allowing the "master device" (randomly chosen) to set the charge phase (bulk/absorption/float) and have all chargers on that same phase; however, running both VE.Smart and a GX device with DVCC enabled is known to cause conflicts. A solution may be to disable DVCC and setup a VE.Smart network between the shunt and smart chargers. You will not get solar prioritization, but you will have the chargers always in the same phase of charging thus avoiding the MPPT being in float and unable to provide current when voltage is above float.

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kevgermany avatar image
kevgermany answered ·

There's a lot on the XS development path in this thread

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/253510/buckboost-orion-xs-ve-smart-network.html

Looks as if I missed a couple of updates, sorry.

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David Robinson avatar image David Robinson commented ·
That thread was helpful to see how the features developed over time. Thanks
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David Robinson avatar image
David Robinson answered ·

“Unfortunately, as I already mentioned, you have configured your system in such a way as to render the MPPT unable to provide current at absorption battery voltage. If you were in the bulk or absorption phase on both chargers, I would expect the solar priority to be in effect, but that has other dependencies as well.“


Well that certainly wasn’t my intention. Both charger are configured with the same battery parameters recommended by Battleborn.


From your reply, I’m suspecting its DVCC and Smart Networking conflicting. I didn’t have the situation with the two chargers in different phases until DVCC was enabled.


So I’m going to disable DVCC and stick with Smart networking.

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