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xavier-64 avatar image
xavier-64 asked

GX with GuiMods - Genset defective Manual STOP after 3.10 Update?

Hello,
I've already have had some discussions with Kevin Windrem and for now no positive output ! here topic's link => https://community.victronenergy.com/answers/232634/view.html


The symptom is :

If I manually start the genset, I not able to power it off in the same way!
Switching from OS version 3.10 back to 3.01 it works!
Turning back to 3.10 no way to get the relay switch off and so stop the generator but going in setting and set up it as manual...

So, I'm disappointed and would like to understand if someone already encounter this trouble.

Other function with the genset work fine. i.e.: with the periodic run test, the system is powering on and off the Genset as it is programmed.

fine. i.e.: with the period test run, the system is powering on and off the Genset as it is programmed.





Generator
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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 commented ·

This is my Camper where is 1300km from the place I'm for 1 and half month !
Today I receive a call that my genset was running for 4 hours !!!
So something wrong with it !!!

I've removed all genset linked function until I will be back !

Waiting feedback for now !

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi both, after Kevins message below, I have changed the title to also mention guimods.


I’ll ignore this for now until someone tests and reports that this happens to him without custom software addons installed, such as GuiMods, SetupHelper or ExtTransferSwitch.

As said: we tested (standard Victron software ofcourse, no addons) and can’t reproduce it; all works fine.

And apart from these two complaints I have none. And the userbase is enormous.

I hope you find out what is happening soon!

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

Ps. Next time please all mention it if you have custom (non-Victron) software addons installed, such as Guimods, Setuphelper or ExtTransferswitch.



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11 Answers
harold avatar image
harold answered ·

set a cool down period by accident?
it is a new function in 3.10


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Ivar Wagle avatar image
Ivar Wagle answered ·

Same issue here.

Relay 1 set as Generator.Closes on pressing Manual Start. Does not open when pressing Stop. Genset keeps running.
When changing Relay1 from Generator to Manual, relay opens - genset shuts down.

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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 commented ·
Exact, same issue with me.
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harold avatar image
harold answered ·

If this is a bug in 3.10 it will be very inconvenient for remote located systems!
@mvader (Victron Energy)

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image
mvader (Victron Energy) answered ·

Hi all. Thank you for the report and sorry for the troubles!


We including myself tried, and can’t reproduce it. I have even been using it on my own installation, manual run for 30 minutes a few times last weekend: all fine.

Tried reproducing on v3.10 and on the latest beta. And on those both its impossible to reproduce. So it must be some combination of settings.

Can you explain your config a bit more? Is warmup or cooldown enabled for example? Autostart?

And, can you try with v3.20~7, the current available beta? It has a few start/stop fixes.


Thank you, Matthijs


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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 commented ·

So, I do not understand what happen but I lost my 30 min documented answer ..

Try to redo it ! But meanwhile I've launched the update to OS 3.20~7...

So,

here the draws of me setup : (I found one not correct point but not necessary error on the functional point of view, but I need to correct it)

the Genset cabling : (the M/A line need to be up for running or down for stopped)

Carb Reserv => Carburant/diesel level

the Relay 6205 is seeking the genset output and giving the signal to one other relay connected to Cerbo GX digital input.

1695846015134.png

The set of 6206, 6207, 6210, 6211, 6212 devices is the externaltranferswitch giving the signal to the DMC 200 control panel.

1695846432073.png



the Cerbo GX

1695846806606.png

the Genset On command closing the loop for the Genset and externaltranferswitch device with 6204 Relay (this is a not correct wirring as the external transferswitch could not be activated if 6209 is switched) (6209 is used to get "external direct and full genset power" on 6208 plug)


So could I use the same loop (A1-A2) connected in parallel (using the same cables)between the cerbo GX and DMC Pannel ?

Or do I need to use a relay to create 2 separate loops ?


62022-1695848234018.png



Devices setup is : External Tranfer Switch on Dig input 2, Genset on Dig Input 3.

Periodic run of 5 min every 10 days. (I've just added warm up and cool dow period after my manual and successfull tests of last week 30 and 60 sec respectively)

Minimal running time is 5 minutes too.

62024-1695848764135.png

62027-1695848845896.png

62029-1695848999535.png

62031-1695849078598.png


I'm using externaltransferswitch and setuphelper packages (guimods are not installed)

I'm available if needed.

Xavier

P.S. : I don't know if granding access of my VRM to one of your dev/tev team could be a policy that is in your policy, but in case of, I open thispoint.


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Ivar Wagle avatar image Ivar Wagle commented ·

Thanks for the follow-up, Sir Vader.

See all relevant screenshots from the Cerbo below.

Auto start feature disabeled for now. The minimum run time is set to five minutes. Wating past the time limit makes no difference. Relay 1 on the Cerbo is connected to a Control by Web (CBW) X-410 running a start-up script for my genset (Honnda EU70is). The scipt is triggered when the connected relay 1 on Cerbo closes upon pressing manual start for the generator. This initiates a sart ad run script. Script loops until the stop button on the Cerbo is supposed to open realy 1.

This has been working for two years. I can hear the relays on start-up. But the relay does not open on prssing stop, so the CBW keeps looping in run mode. This is a remote location set-up. I discover that setting Cerbo-relay 1 function from Generator to Auto, while it was running, resulted in opening the relay.

Of possibel causes from the system setup:

  • The add-on packet GeneratorConnector wa installed prior to the upgrade to 3.10. It removed, but parts of the code might mess things up.
  • Under Modbus TCP Scervices, Generator shows up two times under registrer / unit-ID 1 and 100 (image 3)
  • Input connection to the genset /dev/gpio/digital_input_1 (image 6)


001-genset-post-310.jpg1

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003-genset-post-310.jpg3

004-genset-post-310.jpg4

005-genset-post-310.jpg5

006-genset-post-310.jpg6

007-genset-post-310.jpg7


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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

First, PLEASE mention all installed modifications when posting issues here. You can cause the Victron software team hours/days of testing to try to duplicate a problem that is not in the stock Victron code!! Victron will only troubleshoot issues that are running 100% stock code.

Second, as I have stated in the other thread, I have not been able to duplicate the problem on my test system. The generator output relay follows the manual/auto run states as expected. I will need more information such as logs that might explain what is going on in these particular systems.

GeneratorConnector is obsolete. Its functionality is now part of GuiMods.

Without GuiMods any manual control of the generator such as from its local control panel will NOT propagate to the GX device. The only functionality of the generator digital input in the stock code is to raise an alert if the generator is not running under some conditions.

WITH GuiMods, the GX device will attempt to synchronize the manual start state with changes to the generator digital input. Starting the generator from it’s local panel will cause the manual start to go active IF an automatic run is not currently active. Stopping the generator from its local panel will deactivate the GX device’s manual start state if no auto run is active. If an active run is active and the generator is stopped from its local panel, a warning will appear in the generator status tile.

Note that cooldown periods will delay the generator transition from running to stopped by the period set. But a 0 cooldown should result in a very short delay, if any at all.

Note that both ExtTransferSwitch and GuiMods modify the generator startstop.py file. If both are installed, the GuiMods version overrides the ExtTransferSwitch version regardless of the installation order.

Regarding feeding the same signal to the generator and external transfer switch digital inputs: you can simply wire the source to both digital inputs (in parallel). It would be better if the generator digital input was fed by a signal that indicated the generator is producing power. A relay coil across the AC output of the generator could provide that signal if the control system does not provide an appropriate signal. The external transfer switch digital input should be fed from a signal that indicates the generator is feeding the AC input (whether or not the generator is actually running).


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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 commented ·

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for your reply, regarding Digital signal the signals inputs, I will change the cabling as I've draw on my answer. I digital input for the Generator given by the generator and one for the External transfer switch as there is 2 different information thru a coil relay (giving easiest posible options for testing) and keeping the inputs isolated/separated. I found my wirring "error" preparing my answer...

1695882907585.png


"Without GuiMods any manual control of the generator such as from its local control panel will NOT propagate to the GX device. The only functionality of the generator digital input in the stock code is to raise an alert if the generator is not running under some conditions."

If I understand, If I do not install the GuiMods,

1695881720784.png


I can't use the Cerbo GX Generator panel to Start and Stop the Genset Manually ?


1695882008193.png

Perhaps this is there that there is some misunderstanding. As With Dometic Genset, if you put it in "Gen Auto" mode, the local panel control in nort working but the "general genset power" button for security.groupe-elec-01.jpg


I don't know when I will be able to update the wire cabling as I'm away for a while.

I will try to do some remote tests to see how my system is responding.

"First, PLEASE mention all installed modifications when posting issues here. You can cause the Victron software team hours/days of testing to try to duplicate a problem that is not in the stock Victron code!! Victron will only troubleshoot issues that are running 100% stock code."

I do not change the system switching from 3.01 to 3.10. I've tried settings to understand what is happening. But I'm with the same settings but the running period from 6 to 5 and the warmup / cooldown after some succeed testing of "periodic running test". (can be removed)

Meanwhile If there is a way to save requested logs for please tell me how.

Thank you for your time !

Xavier

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ xavier-64 commented ·

EDIT: replaced Guimods by more generic wording


Hi, you wrote:

> I do not change the system switching from 3.01 to 3.10. I've tried settings to understand what is happening. But I'm with the same settings but the running period from 6 to 5 and the warmup / cooldown after some succeed testing of "periodic running test". (can be removed)

I get the impression that you don't really understand the issue that me and Kevin are trying to highlight here with regards to mentioning having non-Victron software addons installed, such as SetupHelper, Guimods or ExtTransferswitch.

The rule is simple: if you have installed such add-on, then whatever you do and whatever happens: when asking for help you have to mention that you're not running a standard version and detail exactly which addons or modifications you installed.

And you can't expect help from a dealer, distributor, or other official support agent as long you are running for example GuiMods, or other non standard code.

The rule is also important: if this goes wrong too often, and myself and my engineers are loosing time diagnosing non-Victron code or functionalities too often, we'll have no other option than to decide to make things like GuiMods impossible.

Now, we're far from that - I'm very happen to have made Venus OS an open system, and am not at all considering to change that - but still want to make sure that above rule is very clear.


---


So, with that said: I hope your issue is sorted soon!


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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·

Hello,

I'm not complaining but confused by the fact this is not so easy to understand the limits between the official release and the customizing packages.

Trying to understanding all the system as well as possible that what I'm doing by changing settings.. and the first was... switching from the 3.01 to 3.10 and vice versa to see if this is my settings or the OS update....

Then I open the topic to tell about it ...

the situation is frustrating but OK with me, I do understand all the job your teams is doing...

Then next step was, OK, I will remove the packages... but before I will re-install and update them to see...

And I've updated the post/topic about to inform about me progress :

The system was ( looking like) all ok, after all update and Kevin intervention with Externaltransferswitch update... First, some manual simulations... all the parameters was changing to Grid or Generator as expected....

Additionnal test... periodic run... after 3 tests working OK, ... I've estimated that point is ok and the system was running OK. And the fact that I was not able to power off the Genset from Cerbo Control panel was a minor issue and there still be a way by switch the relay setup to manual and the periodic test was succeffully tested 3 times...

By the way

this is the situation before I need to leave my RV for a working mission until middle/end of November....

For now, I will not be able to do any other tests (removing packages and do additional testing) until I'm not going back to my RV place. I got trouble to have a local support (someone in front of my system) and a remote control connection disponibility from myself at the same time.

That's clear that the phone call about the 4 hour time genset run was not appreciated but this is OK for me... there is no problem... the system is so complex that this is sometimes difficult to set it up accordingly of our mind.

So I want to get all the things clear in my head that's why from the begining I do write I'm using exernaltransferswitch only.

This come from that info I've read :

1695913097524.png

So my meaning is , I'm not using GuiMods but Externatransferswitch Only.

This tool is working OK and solve my AC input selection trouble.

One point to clarify for me ! I have installed the package manager and external transfer switch package. I have downloaded the GuiMods but not installed it.

So If the fact to use the externaltransferswitch package means GuiMods, so yes I use GuiMods...

Again, thank you for tyhe job you are doing, that Victron system and community is doing lot of good things.

BR

Xavier.






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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ xavier-64 commented ·
Hi Xavier,


Thank you for the explanation. When I said Guimods, I actually meant any modification.


So also the setuphelper and exttransferswitch packages, and also Node-RED, Signal-K, or any other add-on or modification.


I’ve reworded my above requests to be more clear about that - for anyone else coming across this post.


Sorry I cannot help you any further, I hope you have your issue sorted soon,

Matthijs

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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

I have tested v3.10 and Ext TS v2.32 with and without GuiMods v8.9 and can not reproduce the issue with the generator relay not opening.

I will need more information to troubleshoot further. Please post in the GitHub ExternalTransferSwitch issues area, not here for better response to your input.


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Ivar Wagle avatar image
Ivar Wagle answered ·

I can only confirm same behavior as @xavier-64.

Under v. 3.10, with GuiMod (and SetUpHelper) installed (no other 3-party code), genrator relay on Cerbo closes as expected upon pressing Start on the Generator page. However, does not open on pressing Stop. leaving Genset running. My testing indicates it has nothing to do withe warm-up and cool-down settings.

Uninstalling GuiMods and a reeboot, makes the Stop-function work again.

My conclution is that GuiMod v. 8.10 breaks the generator Start - Stop-function on Cerbos running Venus OS 3.10.

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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 commented ·

Hello Ivar,

Thanks for your feedback ! look like the same issue in fact.
I've updated to 3.20~7 version but not tested yet ! But perhaps this is better to start looking for the trouble with the 3.10...

@Kevin Windrem Ok, I will open an issue if the is not one already opened.
I'm still away from the place where my setup is out of working hours. My cerbo is available remotly, so I'm able to get some logs or additional information if needed.

Xavier.

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Ivar Wagle avatar image
Ivar Wagle answered ·

@xavier-64 @Kevin Windrem @mvader (Victron Energy)
Brief update:
Uninstalling GuiMods solved the issue.
Reinstalling GuiMods beta 8.11~2 and reeboot Cerbo seems to solve the "stuck relay" issue.

Two test runs on my installation both resulted in relay opening upon tapping stop. Generator shuts down.

Well done, Kevin Winderm!

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Kevin Windrem avatar image Kevin Windrem commented ·
The beta test code (v8.11~2) has now been released as v8.11. Please set the GuiMods branch/tag back to 'latest' if you were using the beta branch for testing.


I can not explain why this was a problem in the field yet I did not see it in my test systems. Thanks to all for being patient and helping test the fix in your systems.

I will also be checking in these changes to the ExtTransferSwitch package as it had the same code.

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xavier-64 avatar image xavier-64 commented ·

Helo,

I'm not able to check it out in situ ! I've opened an issue on Github with ExternalTranferswitch.
I've just do new 3.10 OS installation... But Not able to test is !!
Thanks for you kjob !
Will update ASAP.

Xavier

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xavier-64 avatar image
xavier-64 answered ·

Hello All,

Quick pdate :
Updated My main RV's Cerbo to OS 3.11 but no locally tested yet !
Ordered a Ekrano for a new system

Ordered a Cerbo Gx to create Test/andbox system...
Restarted an old BeagleBone Dev card for testing too..

Xavier.

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xavier-64 avatar image
xavier-64 answered ·

Hello,
So, good news ! after Cergo Gx update with Venus OS 3.11 then 3.12, the genset manual start and stop is working OK.

thanks to all victron team and to the community.

Good to see the Genset back to the system :
1701250692234.png


Xavier.




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xavier-64 avatar image
xavier-64 answered ·

Hello,

So now all seems to be back as it should !! Genset Test is running OK !!
let's see further tuning steps... I think I wait the 3.20 Firmware final release !
1702035195709.png
So this topic could be clasiified as solved !

Xavier


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