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Orion TR-Smart 12/12-30 65 amp output

Hi,

I recently hooked up my Orion TR-Smart 12/12-30 dc to dc charger and it seems to work fine charging my battery bank but only when I do not have my inverter connected. When I connect the inverter via 2 x 250amp breakers, the Orion outputs 65 amps and blows the 60amp breaker. The inverter has no AC load and its no load DC current draw is only 0.7amps. I was hoping someone could shine some light on what the issue might be.

Below is my wiring diagram. The only exception is the the Orion and inverter share a ground bolt connected to the chassis2001-e450.png

orion-tr smart
2001-e450.png (830.7 KiB)
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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·
Where in the circuit do you measure the 65A?


Which of the four breakers is blowing?

Does it happen immediately you make the connection?

Could be the capacitors in the inverter need a high start current and the breaker is too small.




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sunnysideup avatar image sunnysideup kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·

65amps is measured at the Orion output wire via my clamp meter. The output breaker is the one that trips. It does not happen immediately.

I can bypass the inverter high start current possibly being an issue by not connecting the Orion until after the inverter is started but it still goes straight to the 65 amp output.

I now have grounded the Orion and inverted at two separate chassis locations. The results are the same.

Condition:

2 x 250 amp breakers connected, Inverter switch on or off, no AC load

Result:

Orion output wire 65amps, Orion ground wire 55amps, Orion input wire 14amps, inverter ground wire 5amps. The positive wire on the battery bank (BB2) to inverter reads 40amps. On some tests the Orion green LED goes off and sometimes it just blinks.


Condition:

2 x 250 amp breakers disconnected, Inverter switch on or off, no AC load

Result:

Correct charging by Orion, negative battery bank cable 5amps


I tried switching the Orion to power supply (12v output) but the output wire is still at 65amps when the 2 x 250 amp breakers are connected. For comparison, I have another van with the same setup except no Orion. The 6awg charge cable comes straight from my seat switch to the battery bank and it measured 4/5amps to charge the battery under the same conditions.

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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack commented ·
If the circuit breaker right of it (DCin) is flying, then I assume, that you have a heavy load on the DCout.


The Inverter with 2x 250A is pulling down the Battery Voltage hence the input Amperes of the Oripn-Tr must be increased to maintain the 30A output current.


I assume, the INPUT Voltage on the Orion-Tr drop to around 7-8V.


Please check this.


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sunnysideup avatar image sunnysideup Michelle Konzack commented · 


If the circuit breaker right of it (DCin) is flying, then I assume, that you 
have a heavy load on the DCout

The DC current to keep the inverter on is only 0.7amps. There's no other load demand since everything on the AC side is unplugged.

"The Inverter with 2x 250A is pulling down the Battery Voltage hence the input 
Amperes of the Oripn-Tr must be increased to maintain the 30A output current."

There's no load demand by inverter though. When the Orion is turned off, and the 2 x 250 breakers are connected there's only 0.7amps or less being measured which is spec with the inverter manual. For example; the positive wire going from the battery bank to the 250amp breaker is reading 40amps when the Orion is on but with the Orion off it reads 0.7amps or less.

I assume, the INPUT Voltage on the Orion-Tr drop to around 7-8V.

input voltage when Orion on, 2 x 250amp breakers off = 13.7v

input voltage when Orion on, 2 x 250amp breakers on = 13.9

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matthias-nagel avatar image
matthias-nagel answered ·
Is the minus terminal of the batterie grounded, too? I don't see any electrical connection between the minus pole of the Orion DC-DC charger (which is grounded) and the minus pole of the batteries.

What is the object in the middle botom? The thing which has a fan.

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sunnysideup avatar image sunnysideup commented · 
Is the minus terminal of the batterie grounded, too?

D'oh. That appears to have fixed the issue. Everything seems to be working fine now and the Orion output amps have only temp spiked to about 40amps under load but mainly appear to be holding steady at 30amps or below.

Thank you matthias-nagel, Michelle Konzack and keygermany

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matthias-nagel avatar image matthias-nagel sunnysideup commented ·

You should not only ground the minus terminal of your battery bank, but have a proper connection to the minus terminal of the Orion. This connection must be able to carry the charging current, i.e. have the same rating/diameter as the plus connection.

Grounding is a safety measure, but not supposed to carry normal operational current.

Also ensure that you have a proper connection to the minus pole of the feeding side. Your diagram only shows a positive connection (with a switch labelled "seat switch"). It seems there is also a missing minus connection.

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sunnysideup avatar image sunnysideup matthias-nagel commented · 
You should not only ground the minus terminal of your battery bank, but have a proper connection to the minus terminal of the Orion. This connection must be able to carry the charging current, i.e. have the same rating/diameter as the plus connection.

The positive terminals of the Orion are 6awg and the ground is also 6awg. 13.8v for 12ft (3.65m) and a max of 60amp should be 12.65mm2 cable so 6awg should be good. I also just changed the breakers to trip at 40amp now. It should take the possible 40amp 10second surge by the Orion fine without tripping.

Should the battery ground wire be the same 1/0 wire as the rest of the battery connections or is 6awg fine?

Also ensure that you have a proper connection to the minus pole of the feeding side. Your diagram only shows a positive connection (with a switch labelled "seat switch"). It seems there is also a missing minus connection.

The feed side is definitely grounded to the frame. I didn't include the feed side in the diagram because I was confident it wasn't an issue. I have the non-isolated charger so I'm not connecting the grounds together but rather connecting everything to the vehicle frame.

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