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semlohnhoj avatar image
semlohnhoj asked

Is UK Type Approval for the Multi RS Solar planned?

The simple question is: Will the Multi RS Solar ever be put forward for UK Type Approval?

If the answer is YES, then do we have a rought timescales? Also, are the firmware updates in the pipeline likely to include grid feed-in?

If the answer is NO, then I gues I'll need to change my tack on my set-up at home and move to using Multiplus 2's and separate MPPT's. This would be a shame because the Multi RS is a real workhorse.

I've never previously been interested in grid feed-in as my setup is a self install outside of MCS certification in the UK, so I wasn't eligable for G98/G99 sign-off. However, Octopus energy over here in the UK are rolling out an alternative non-MCS route which I may take, hence the speculative question :)


Multi RS
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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

Hi @Semlohnhoj

The intention is for the Multi RS to gain the necessary approvals for equivalent operation to the existing Multi range.

There are no time frames, not even internally. There are just too many variables, software, firmware, hardware, testing agencies, government bodies, all operating on their own time frames with unknown possible delays.

There is a dedicated team working on the RS series, and specifically now Multi RS. Regular progress is being made.

In the last week, the declaration of conformity and Safety Certificates for the Multi RS were released, which are key milestones and essential foundations for other approvals.

Declaration of Conformity – Multi RS Solar 48/6000/100-450/100

Certificate Safety IEC 62109-1 - 62109-2 - Multi RS Solar 48V 6kVA
Certificate Safety IEC 60335-1 - 60335-2 - Multi RS Solar 48V 6kVA

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semlohnhoj avatar image semlohnhoj commented ·

Thanks for the update Guy.

Just checking, The IEC certification is for the dual MPPT version of the Multi, not the single MPPT version I have. Will this apply to the older single version as well or is it not covered? Also, Does the DoC cover both version as well?

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ semlohnhoj commented ·

Hi @Semlohnhoj,

Unfortunately these approvals, and as far as I know approvals going forward are only for the new dual tracker MPPT version. They are distinguishable by the product name -

single tracker - Multi RS Solar 48/6000/100-450/80

dual tracker - Multi RS Solar 48/6000/100-450/100

There are going to be some unavoidable variations between these two models and the additional features that we are able to add via firmware, and certification.

I did my best to make this unknown future ambiguity as clear as I could in the product documentation under the Multi RS "Limitations" chapter.

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GRIGORIU avatar image GRIGORIU commented ·

Hi @Guy Stewart

The certification is a very good news for everyone and the fact that dedicated teams have been created is very encouraging.

However there is a “bad” news ( a kind of) in your info: do you plan additional hardware evolution ? I was expecting the design to be rather "mature" and I suppose that the latest firmware/software developments (especially grid codes) will be available only to the latest hardware designs. Did we get into it to early ? If so do Victron plan to offer a preferential paid replacement/upgrade if we need it or have we to buy a new one? The docs of teh Multi RS is very clear that we should not expect anything in terms of future capabilities but still...

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ GRIGORIU commented ·

Hi @bgrigoriu

The hard truth is that we just don't know what is possible from the hardware yet, and we aren't going to know in advance of reaching that stage of the research and development.

The very cautious language in the limitations chapter still applies for the expected future features (specifically parallel and grid feed-in ESS).

I have attached the limitations chapter from single MPPT version of the Multi RS (June '23) to help illustrate.

The 'good news' since then is that it was possible to add support for 3 phase configurations with a firmware update, and that was done with firmware v1.13.

However there is no way to know if the news will be good for those other features, or if another hardware revision is required.

We would much prefer not to have to revise the hardware again too, and as far as I know of today we have no plans to do so. But it can't be ruled out until the firmware is written and the approvals have been obtained.

Some of the requirements imposed by grid approvals are completely outside of our control. For example some of the hardware features of MultiPlus-II like the double acting backfeed relays were added as a requirement long after the development of the MultiPlus. This required a significant hardware redesign, however we are still selling many of the original MultiPlus design today for people who do not need that grid feature but prefer the aluminium housing.

I understand the ambiguity is frustrating, it is for me as well trying to document it all clearly, but the alternative is that we hold back release of the product until everything is known, which can take years. That really doesn't make sense for all the other applications that the Multi RS serves perfectly as it is today.

We don't have any plans for an upgrade program if we're unable to get the existing hardware working with those features. The limitations chapter was included so that it was very clear what people were getting, and what they could expect. We'll do our best to support our customers with updates where we can for as long as we can (and I think our track record of firmware updates demonstrates that).

If the system design intention was to grid export, or parallel Multi RS, then it was purchased too early and still is. However it's a fantastic product today for applications that don't require those specific limitations.

cleanshot-2023-08-29-at-134209.jpg


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semlohnhoj avatar image
semlohnhoj answered ·

I'm starting to wonder now if I should just ditch my two single tracker Multi RS Solar units and go with the offer of 3x MultiPlus 48/5000 that's on at the moment or at least before the offer ends? At least that has approvals in the UK and parallel operation already. Albeit no MPPTs built in and a whole lot of effort to integrate.

The alternative is an uncertain future with two units that will never be certificates for connection in the UK, possibly never have parallel support and possibly never have an upgrade programme :(


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Craig Chamberlain avatar image Craig Chamberlain commented ·
Yeah, having gone through the whole Multiplus-II ENA certification thing this time last year, I really didn't like being completely dependent on two organisations to sort out the somewhat opaque situation with zero influence from myself. I would far rather take matters into my own hands even if it means a bit of cost or hassle.

Don't make any rushed decisions as you still have a bit of time to decide before the offers ends, but start gaming out both scenarios in your head or on paper/spreadsheet etc. so that you are clear on the pros and cons of your decisions. Then as, hopefully, more information becomes available, you can refine the pros and cons accordingly.

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Rubén Pedrero avatar image
Rubén Pedrero answered ·

Hi @Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager)

Do you have any news about grid export? (in my case is for spain)

And for paralell?
datasheet shows paralell for 4Q 2023.

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi @Rubén Pedrero,

Any announcements about those features will be made via the https://professional.victronenergy.com/news/ channel.

The 4Q 2023 estimate marked on the data sheet will be updated. 3 phase support was added sooner than expected (it is already done), parallel may take longer.

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semlohnhoj avatar image
semlohnhoj answered ·

Well, given where we are currently with the firmware and approvals, I've opted to replace one of my two single tracker Multi RS Solar units for a Dual version. At least I have some hope of getting approvals for that at some point in the future even if we never get parallel. If we do get parallel support, then I will replace the second as well. It's a stepping stone on the way.

I was considering getting the offer of 3xMultiPlus-II 5000's that is expiring tomorrow and running them in parallel, but apart from having to get separate MPPTs for my setup, there is also no approvals in the UK for running these in parallel even though they are capable. Hurdles, hurdles everywhere :)

One step forward....

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