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duckman avatar image
duckman asked

generator and multiplus

Hi, less of a question more of a findings

from searching the questions (which i did myself before) generators and multiplus comes up often

I build generators, i am less "techy" than many with victron products but have used 1500 rpm japanese diesels with 4 pole windings for over 25 years on ouback and trace

without a doubt victron (mines a multiplus II 5000/48) are the pickiest inverters with a generator that i have encountered

for some time now ive been fine tuning a 1500 rpm kubota D905 (895cc) with meccalte 4 pole AVR regulation,

multis like to spit out their dummies, say what you will, they do

some usefull pointers re japanese 1500 rpm generators and multis

7kva+ continuous rating for a 3000va, 10kva+ continuous rating for a 5000va

kubota use a centrifugal governer which reacts too slowly for the victron, so when operating at say 50% load capacity of the generator continuous output running load and charger and say a freezer motor kicks in it is often the case that the multi will spit its dummy, leading to the relay chatter as the multi spits out, then re connects until the next "coincidence", such "coincidences" often seem random to the end user

careful tuning of input amps and enforced (quite prolonged) generator warm ups can help with hassle free running

if i could do it again id go yanmar 3tne 78a (1200cc) with a continuous rating of 12kva 230 single phase, with "in pump" governing is better than the kubota "in engine" governing, i ran one to 15,000 hours on a trace and it never missed a beat

initially gross oversizing seems illogical and overly wastefull of fuel, but in hindsight shorter runs at higher charge capacity woud make sense and lead for a more stress free life

i hope some find this usefull as it was a subject i researched much before resolving, the victron generator faq page is quite good, but re 1500rpm diesels the above is better, i used to re-build Gardner engines, like i say, less techy on victron but slow speed diesels i know my ting

Generator
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2 Answers
JohnC avatar image
JohnC answered ·

@duckman

Thanks for that contribution. I've always said myself that the Multis are somewhat picky, but after a number of years of using one with various gensets (yes, sometimes cursing), I wouldn't have it any other way. They are designed to protect downstream kit from bad ac, and they do it well.

As troublesome as some gensets may be, there's always a reason. This article is fairly old, but very thorough. A good explanation of different types of regulation, and the sinewaves alone are worth a look.. https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/VE_Marine_generator_test_RVA_07-jan-2008.pdf

I think you've seen this.. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/multiplus_faq, but the Dynamic Current Limiter mentioned there is just about essential for any genset's governor to have reaction time. The Multi's Power Assist also helps with spiky loads, and the genset can be sometimes completely ignored (not rejected) when PA takes over, then the spike dissipates and DCL winds up the genset again.

Even bad wiring can impinge. I once went a couple of years needing to use the WeakAC setting (and cursing). Until I shortened the genset power cord and found a 'dry joint'. All good after that. My fault I missed tt, but the Multi was telling me something was wrong all that time.

Then there's the cheap'n'nasty gensets that shouldn't even be on the market. I once bought one as a backup for my main, and was given a couple of others. All 3 were overrated, so couldn't produce decent power (quantity & quality), and all 3 suffered terminal failures after low hours. The Multi protected me from those, so I reckon the Multi's pickiness ain't so bad after all.

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duckman avatar image
duckman answered ·

@JohnC

many thanks for those extra pointers, by the sounds of it youve been dependent on the generator/inverter situation for a long time too.

The wiring "dry joint" point i take, there are issues with wiring power sources to the multi that go beyond what we can easily measure,

i have grid where i currently live (first time in adulthood and im 55) and the first generator / multi issue i had was the LOM, dire, that was the first thing to be cut out, i didnt go ziehl, i use a simple low volt release that works with an rcd made by siemmens, £70 not £550, yes i have to go re-set it when the mains power is disrupted, small price to pay

one thing i have noticed is that being able to push the ac powered charger in the multi past the faltering, low current end gives much better performance and is more stable, obviously this is where the generator sizing comes in as being comfortable to run ac loads (in my case 3000w) AND give the charger a high output

my 7kva constant rated kubota was something i already had and it struggled and misbehaved, ive just rebuilt it and the situation is better, hence the findings on the original post. i will take another look at Dynamic current limiter, good call, thanks

i missed out on a TS3 Lister set of 12kva a while back, that would have been ideal, im currently putting together another D905 kubota specifically to do my 3 phase for my woodworking machines. The Lister would have run my rotary phase convertor and done both jobs for me, hindsight

i remind myself often that when tshtf such skills as we have aquired will be coming in very useful,

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