question

drizzt321 avatar image
drizzt321 asked

Victron LFP battery question

Usage: small travel trailer, moderate usage but needing more power to get through nights running danfoss chest/cooler fridge (outside) and inside small danfoss fridge, when it's hot out. Plus lighting, and charging up various other bits.

I've currently got a BattleBorn 12v 100Ah battery, and I'm looking for 200+Ah (not going to describe fuse setup, it's sufficient with fallback Class-T at the battery). I'm contemplating switching to Victron LFP so I can tie into the rest of my current Victron systems (BMV-712, MPPT 150/50, Orion Tr Isolated 12-12 18a) for monitoring/etc of the battery, which BattleBorn doesn't have, which would be a nice to have.

I could just add a 100Ah BattleBorn, or upgrade the newer 270Ah BattleBorn, but the monitoring/integration could be nice.

However, upon reading closer, it looks like the Victron LFP doesn't have an integrated BMS in each battery pack? But it does have in-pack cell balancing? I'm getting confused now, so it had no built-in protection at all from over-current or over-voltage or anything like that?

So I'd need both a Smart BatteryProtect as well as a BMS, such as smallBMS or VE.Bus BMS V2. Seems overkill for my system, I'd just like cell health monitoring and such, but seems like Victron isn't for small systems with limited space :(

Lithium BatteryBMS
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

1 Answer
hardy-tuner avatar image
hardy-tuner answered ·

Victron LFP has in-pack cell balancing, but no built-in protection from over-current or over-voltage. yes you should use a Smart BatteryProtect when you have no phoenix or Multiplus as inverter.

11 comments
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

drizzt321 avatar image drizzt321 commented ·

*sigh* It's like Victron doesn't want to support or provide equipment for smaller setups, especially those in small trailer type setups. Only bigger, off-grid or grid-tie situations. Or bigger trailers/5th wheels or the like.


Likewise with 120v inverters and inverter/chargers, they either are just not quite enough for my requirement, or vastly oversized. I realize it won't be tiny, but I want to be able to run a power tool, for short periods of time, if I need. ~2000-2200W continuous, 2500+W peak startup. The Phoenix Smart VE.Direct, which also has BT, doesn't come close, the Phoenix Inverter Smart has a 12v/3000VA which would work, but only comes in 230v, and the Phoenix Inverter 120v 12/3000 would work, but only has VE.Bus, no VE.Direct to plug into my BMV-712 or BT for the phone app for configuration.

For Inverter/Charger even more limited options, AFAIK none of them offer VE.Direct/BT, and it seems even fewer offer 120v.

Or have I missed some options?

Victron is expensive, especially the 2000-3000VA I've looked at, but my impression is rock solid and Just Works(tm) and works well, even when stressed. So I WANT to give them my money, just I don't think they have any other bits that suits my needs and requirements that will tie into the Smart or VE.Direct on the BMV to enable me to manage it without a full blown Cerbo type setup.

0 Likes 0 ·
Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ drizzt321 commented ·

Connecting the Phoenix Smart Inverter with VE.direct to a BMV is not supported.

The VE.direct port is for communication to a GX device (or PC with USB interface) not for connecting different VE.direct devices together.

For VE.bus there is also a Smart Dongle available.
https://www.victronenergy.com/accessories/ve-bus-smart-dongle

The "problem" with 120V models is that Victron is a european company so they focus on the european 230V market and new products are always coming as 230V models first. I'm sure the Phoenix Smart Inverter will also come as a 120V model some day but I don't know of any roadmap for that.

2 Likes 2 ·
drizzt321 avatar image drizzt321 Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

So I do understand that these product designs should be fairly long lived, which means updating for the `Smart` BT connectivity is a slow process, but it feels (to me) like it's been a rather long time to refresh most models and include that functionality. Although given they are certified, maybe it's not as quick of a process that I, as a consumer, imagines.

I do understand that you're a EU first company, and while it isn't as simply as swapping in a 230v->120v module, especially at higher power levels, surely you see there's enough demand that it's worthwhile to have something like that on the roadmap with a general time frame. 6 months, 12 months, 18 months or what not after releasing the primary markets 230v version.

And adding another ~$100 or so for the VE.Bus dongle. And it's more wiring and physical space and so on. And while it's great you offer this for older equipment, Victron increasingly feels behind the times for small builders, rather than large scale installations.

I'm really wanting to give you money, but you're making it hard for me to do beyond MPPT + Orion (which STILL doesn't participate in VE.Smart AFAIK) + BMV + BlueSmart charger. I'm just going to have to go to another company for an inverter (or ditch the BlueSmart for inverter charger, which is tempting despite the cost).

0 Likes 0 ·
Show more comments