question

alan avatar image
alan asked

Multiplus II AS/NZS 4777.2 Approval

Hi,


Can I ask when the MPII 5kva will get approval from the CEC.

Multiplus-II
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14 Answers
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

Hi Alan,

The CEC does not give approval time estimates.

Multiplus-II 5k is currently going through approvals process all over the world as a priority for Victron.

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offgridvoltage avatar image offgridvoltage commented ·

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager)

Hi Guy ... Am I correct in assuming that the Multiplus II now has CEC approval in Australia for the gridcode : 4777.2:2020 Appendix M ???

I assume this due to the note in the firmware changelog for Multiplus II Vs 510 that states >>

  • Enabled the appendix M. gridcodes of AS/NZS4777 for standard Multis/Quattros.
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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ offgridvoltage commented ·
Hi @OffGridVoltage,

The only place you can confirm CEC approval is via the CEC published list.

The MultiPlus 3k and 5k models currently have AS4777.2:2020 certification - but this is not the same thing as a CEC approval.

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alan avatar image
alan answered ·

Ok thanks guy, many have been eagerly waiting for this.

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syedhassan avatar image
syedhassan answered ·

It has been approved by CEC.

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Rod Krempaszky avatar image
Rod Krempaszky answered ·

As of 12th May 2022 the CEC list SAA181339 approval. Victron certificates page shows SAA181339 certified under 4777:2015 for MPII.

I understand testing is occurring under 4777:2020 using the clause in Appendix M, being no export.

No export is actually brilliant, as I am now invoiced a congestion fee with export by Lines company. Per phase metering in NZ and Chez Republic penalises renewables at point of production in all 2 and 3 phase systems. You get invoiced for import at full rate on one phase, while exporting on another phase (symmetric production across all phases) at sub 10 cents on another phase that is now invoiced under a congestion penalty fee. Australia and rest of planet Net Metered cancels import with export.

If client wants export, place a GT 4777:2020 (agnostic) compliant inverter on the grid side, install the ET112 with RS485 to USB (or similar ET/EM 1 or 3 phase) for the Victron to grid zero and charge from excess production. (Adding some DC MPPT is highly recommended).

Want a system that uses your investment to full potential? Live in NZ or Chez Republic? Compatible GT inverter set to mini grid on AC out side, with a mix or all DC MPPT and help assist the Lines mandate to reduce coal/diesel under COP26 and not get invoiced a congestion fee.

Victron under country code is an on-line UPS in this mode with-out the need to install additional sub-board with change over contacts/relays (that fail) for back up circuits.

Most of you reading this know all of this, we are all waiting anxiously for 4777:2020 certificate...


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mariner62 avatar image
mariner62 answered ·

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager)

Hi Guy, can you please comment on the status of efforts to certify the Multiplus II 48/5000 against AS/NZ 4777:2020. We are all keen to see the MPII being approved for grid connected systems here in Australia. Thanks.

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gnsa14 avatar image
gnsa14 answered ·

@Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager)

Hi Guy, is there any update on this approval for grid connection?
as per AS/NZ 4777:2020

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bipedalprimate avatar image
bipedalprimate answered ·

Please see response back from the CEC to Victron in relation to their application for grid connect :

AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 was written/developed with a new clause/Appendix for stand-alone inverters that can connect to the grid and draw power from the grid and but not export.

The CEC listing offers 2 options for:

  • Stand-alone inverter with grid input
  • Stand-alone inverter with generator input

To qualify for the Stand-alone inverter with grid input – the inverter needs to be certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 Appendix M which was specifically written for stand alone inverter with ac grid input. Otherwise if the inverter has not been certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 Appendix M, then the inverter is approved as stand-alone inverter with generator input, in which the AC input port should only be connected to a generator and not the grid.

Manufacturers are allowed to choose which of the 2 categories they would like the inverter to be approved as long as the correct certification documents are submitted during the application process.

If Victron does not wish to have the stand-alone inverters certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020, Victron can select the Stand-alone inverter with generator input - this will require an appropriate statement advising that for AU market for fixed household energy storage installations, the AC input port cannot be connected to the grid and only to an generator.

Please note that in Australia, the compliance of inverters to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 is monitored by the CEC with our product compliance and testing program, Grid Operators that the inverters connect to, AEMO - the Australia Energy Market Operator, and Electrical Safety Regulators (who have inspectors to carry out site inspections).

Kind Regards,


An additional comment from my local Victron distributor is: "Victron is not tested to AS4777.2.2020 Appendix M and it is highly unlikely that they will be."

Conclusion is that Victron have made a marketing decision to not compete in the Australian Grid Tied ESS market.

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Ben Stanton avatar image
Ben Stanton answered ·

Update: 07 August 2023 - I have just heard from Chris Soumbassis: "We received confirmation last week from Matthijs that we are awaiting the SAA certification to submit to the CEC. This could take up to 4 weeks."

So, fingers crossed!

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David avatar image David commented ·

Any news?

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jerome7 avatar image jerome7 commented ·
Also waiting to hear about the outcome of this.
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pbarrett avatar image
pbarrett answered ·

I have been waiting on this myself so reached out to CEC earlier this week and I got the following response.


Hello Paul,

Thank you for your enquiry.

The Victron MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50 application is not for either of the categories you mentioned, it is for the category Stand Alone Inverter With Generator Input Battery Only. This category does not reflect suitability for interaction with the grid.

I am not able to discuss specifics of the application with you such as timelines, or details of the assessment. All I can advise is that we are currently awaiting a response from Victron.

Victron is aware of the current details, and could provide further information if they chose to, however timelines cannot be guaranteed.


My original correspondence below to CEC

Dear Certification Team,

I am currently designing an ESS with the use of Victron inverters and am currently waiting for the formal addition of the Victron MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50 to the approved inverters list.

I understand that back in August; Victron submitted approval certificate SAA181339 showing compliance to IEC 62109-1, IEC62109-2, AS 62477.1:2016 and AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 Inc A1

Are you able to provide any advice of when the approval is expected to be complete and the the inclusion of this inverter on the list ? Additionally, are you able to confirm if the submission was for Multiple Mode - Battery Only or Standalone Inverter with Grid Input - Battery Only ?

Can someone from Victron confirm this as it sounds like it is not going to be grid interactive

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Hi @pbarrett,

I don't have any more specific info either about the process.

I only know there are efforts to improve the workflow and communication between Victron and the CEC to hopefully reduce the finger pointing. Victron has a big incentive to be listed in as many places as possible :)

The people with the most up to date info on the grid approval certifications are the regional sales managers.

When certificates are approved they are posted in the Victron Professional news http://professional.victronenergy.com/news/ - and via the distributor network as well, as they are also very eager for updates.


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gnsa14 avatar image
gnsa14 answered ·

Update: For those that are not aware yet, the MP2 3000 and 5000 are now Certified for grid connect as per CEC website. The SAA cert was updated 30/10/2023 to include the 5000 for Battery only (not Generator). See SAA181339

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bipedalprimate avatar image bipedalprimate commented ·

Just checked CEC website & they are still showing as Stand Alone With Generator Input.

1710459214683.png


For grid connection, I would have expected "Stand Alone Inverter With Grid Input".

@gnsa14 Where did you see it for Grid Input?

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1710459214683.png (24.6 KiB)
brodhomeauto avatar image brodhomeauto commented ·

@victron Can you confirm this is correct? I checked your news link and nothing has been mentioned

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Hi,

We have generator listing (off-grid), and have applied for grid connect listing, but have not heard back from the CEC yet.


The SAA certificate indeed now approves grid connect. So legally Victron can connect, however many agencies also require the CEC to also say so (but not all).

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Rob Duthie avatar image Rob Duthie Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi Guy

Can you supply me a copy of that cetificate or is it this one SAA181339?

As attached copy.

Regards

Rob D

NZ


Certificate-47772020-SAA181339-Multiplus-II-48V-3--5kVA-(GX).pdf

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bipedalprimate avatar image bipedalprimate Rob Duthie commented ·

@Rob Duthie The issue & expiry dates on the CEC website are different to those in your attachment which I think is from the Victron Energy website..

1710890232638.png


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brodhomeauto avatar image brodhomeauto Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ commented ·

That is the boat I am in, needing the CEC approval as well. Is there an idea of an ETA and what is the best channel to find out when it does get approved (or not)?

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sparkz25 avatar image
sparkz25 answered ·

Have we got any update on this? I now see Vector is listing the MultiPlus II 48/3000 and the 48/5000 as supported inverters to be used on the AKL network as of OCT 23.

https://www.vector.co.nz/kentico_content/assets/9159bf62-628d-423c-a233-db0c2844fa9f/Vector_Approved_Inverters_Oct2023.pdf


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offgridvoltage avatar image
offgridvoltage answered ·

Am I correct in assuming that the Multiplus II now has CEC approval in Australia for the gridcode : 4777.2:2020 Appendix M ???

I assume this due to the note in the firmware changelog for Multiplus II Vs 510 that states >>

  • Enabled the appendix M. gridcodes of AS/NZS4777 for standard Multis/Quattros.
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gyrex avatar image
gyrex answered ·

Is there any news on whether Victron have applied for CEC certification for the Multiplus II being grid connected?

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tranzalore avatar image
tranzalore answered ·

Checking https://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/industry/products/inverters/approved-inverters

It is not there yet :(

This is very disappointing, I was looking for a battery system for my house that did not require proprietary batteries and the Victron units were looking good.

Could they be used if one of these was installed? https://www.ausgrid.com.au/-/media/Documents/Technical-Documentation/NS/NS194/Amendments/Approved-Relay-List.pdf

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Rob Duthie avatar image Rob Duthie commented ·

Hi

Yes these can't export at all, only backup to house and loads, the only thing that will make them export is to install a grid relay like a Tele NA003.

They are grid compliant, they can connect but not export. thats the catch. for the appedix M.

Regards
Rob D

NZ

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enorcs avatar image enorcs Rob Duthie commented ·

Looks like they now have been approved on the 23/08/2024.

https://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/industry/products/inverters/approved-inverters

Does this mean they no longer require a grid relay to export back to the grid?

Regards

Simon

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Rob Duthie avatar image Rob Duthie enorcs commented ·
Hi

It can't export still, only inport as per Appedix M, Its not a grid tied inverter as such. when you read into the fine print.

Regards
Rob D

NZ

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gyrex avatar image gyrex enorcs commented ·
That's awesome news! As long as I can grid connect my inverters for the moment - that's a massive step up from before! I'm assuming that export certification will be added at some point in the future.
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Rob Duthie avatar image Rob Duthie gyrex commented ·
Hi


I would not hold my breath on that one, Just use a grid protect relay then you can export, they cost money expensive, For the MPPT charger you have to use a RS450/100-200 to be grid compliant, can't use anything else, Unless you use grid tied inverter in conjuction the Victron then you can export and charge the batteries that way bit more involded, but work very well, and you wont need the grid protect relay.

Regards

Rob D

NZ

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gyrex avatar image gyrex Rob Duthie commented ·

Thanks Rob. I've already got a Fronius Symo 15kW inverter which I was going to wire into the load side (AC-Out) per the diagram below. Can I export then? To be honest with you, I'm just super chuffed that I can connect the inverters to the grid anyway because it really was looking dire there with a lot of speculation that Victron would never get their MP2s CEC certified for grid connections and I don't really care about exporting but it would be a nice to have I guess.


victron-13-ghostgum-v2.png

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Rob Duthie avatar image Rob Duthie gyrex commented ·
Hi

Yes you can, as they have the grid protection for export etc. The Fronius will need to be setup in micro grid mode, so they can run when in off grid mode etc.

Regards

Rob D

NZ


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