question

getwilde avatar image
getwilde asked

BatteryProtect overly sensitive?

I have just completed a camper van build which includes an (oversized) 12v 220a BatteryProtect, placed on a fused #2 AWG wire, 35cm away from my LiFePO4 battery (160aH, 12v). The included ground wire is cut down to 35cm and runs directly back to my battery negative post.

The problem I am seeing is that whenever I try to run the inverter (Aims 1500w), and often even my mini-fridge (12v), the BatteryProtect kicks in to prevent any power draw. I suspect that there is some initial surge that causes the BatteryProtect to engage. But there is no error code ever shown. This is when my battery bank is ~95% full (13.8v). I have the BP programmed to "8-A" (12v undervoltage), but have tried "9-A" (10v! undervoltage) with no change in results.

I've narrowed down the problem: its definitely the BatteryProtect 220. If I rewire to bypass the BP, the inverter runs fine, the mini-fridge compressor runs as expected, etc, and the battery bank voltage slowly *slowly* draws down as expected... but nowhere near 12v.

Is my BatteryProtect overly sensitive? Defective? Am I not understanding how it should work? Thanks in advance!

Battery Protect
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

8 Answers
graham avatar image
graham answered ·

getwilde Are you using a BMS with the lithium?


When the inverter starts it will pull several time its operating current the BP220 is rated for 600A for 30sec and similar with the fridge.

1 comment
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

getwilde avatar image getwilde commented ·

@Graham: Thanks for your response. My LiFePO4 battery bank is rated for "max continuous current discharge" of 360A, and "recommended continuous current discharge" of 60A.

When I remove the BP220, my batteries have no problem when the inverter and fridge starts. This morning I ran a blender and air popper off the inverter, at the same time. So the battery send to be able to keep up. The bottleneck was the BP220.

I do not have a BMS. (I'm currently bottom-balanced, which seems to be working fine. But I'm keeping a close eye on it. This BP was meant to give me peace-of-mind.)

0 Likes 0 ·
graham avatar image
graham answered ·

getwilde In some respects lithiums are very fragile and run without a BMS leaves them vulnerable - also using some of the signals from for example the Victron BMS you can control things better, I was looking for a better way to do what you are trying to do with the Battery Protect. My gut is telling me your problem is things are drawing too much current on start up and that is why the Battery protect is shutting down.


I would not dream of installing lithiums without a BMS and if that was what the client required for whatever reason I would not do it, it is not safe over all, sorry

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

getwilde avatar image
getwilde answered ·

I just wish this Victron BP would work as expected. Is anyone else on this forum using a BP220 with LiFePO4 to power an inverter, or a 12v fridge? With any surge, mine shuts off all power to the load. There's no way I'm drawing 220a surge... so perhaps mine is defective?

Our charge controller is programmed to stop charging at 90%. And the BP was intended to protect me from over-discharge (had it worked). I bottom-balanced upfront, and they've remained within 15mv of one another through numerous charge cycles thus far. If they go out-of-balance, I'll bottom-balance them again. If necessary, I'll invest in a BMS.

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

graham avatar image
graham answered ·

getwilde I use them in all my Lithium designs but do tend to use the Cyrix Li Load for inverters. In Lithium mode the BPs operate slightly differently and both need a BMS even the mini BMS would do for what you are doing. https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-miniBMS-EN.pdf

I us the BMV high voltage relay to stop charging via the BMS charge signal. They need to get to 14V/14.2V for the Balancing to automatically work. Also I understand that a V Lithium brought up to 14.2V is about at 95%

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

getwilde avatar image
getwilde answered ·

@Graham. I really do appreciate your responses. Maybe my problem is that I wasn't running it in "lithium mode"... I can give that a try.

From what I've read, the Victron BMS(s) are only designed to work with Victron-branded batteries. Perhaps I should have mentioned in my first post that my battery bank is not Victron, and perhaps that's part of my problem (although I haven't seen any mention that the Victron BP is only compatible with Victron batteries). As I understand it, LiFePO4 have a unique charge profile... and sounds like it doesn't match Victron's lithium. On my batteries, 14.2 is essentially 100%, but 13.6v is also very near 100%. 13.4v is 99% and 13.3v is 90%.

1 comment
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

graham avatar image graham commented ·

getwilde You cannot run the BP in Lithium mode without a BMS and the control output from the BMS to switch the BP.


If you get a BMS that has an out put that is high (battery volts) for OK to load and floating or 0V for stop load the I would use the Victron Cyrix Li Load.

Your asking the BP to do something which is stressing it. I am still concerned that it is being overloaded, or maybe the cable from the batteries to the BP and thence to the inverter is not large enough and you have a volt drop problem. The inverter is 1500W from memory and if the cabling run is say 2 metres should be a minimum of 16mmsq or I would be using 25mmsq.


But as we are walking into a battery I know little about I will leave at this point.

0 Likes 0 ·
nebulight avatar image
nebulight answered ·

@getwilde I'm going to echo what @Graham is saying. A battery protect is also no substitute for a BMS, no matter if you top or bottom balance. You should be using a BMS, period.

I wouldn't suggest running an inverter through the BP as you're going to have super high inrush currents at power on and that will most likely shut off the BP or damage it over time. And if this is an inverter/charger, the charger will damage the BP. You should have a BMS that will turn off the inverter in the case of a low voltage event. However depending on model of inverter, you may not have a remote port (though most do).

I too have a battery bank that is DIY. Check out electrodacus SBMS0. It's a cheap solution that you can use to disconnect your loads and disconnect your chargers (as long as they support a remote disconnect) or you can run your charge sources through a second battery protect like I'm doing an let the BMS disconnect the BP in lithium mode.


2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

getwilde avatar image
getwilde answered ·

@nebulight: thanks for your response. I'll look into BMS (and probably return the BP). I hadnt heard of that electrodacus previously but it looks promising, especially for the price. Thanks again everyone.

2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Todd Wackford avatar image
Todd Wackford answered ·

I was having the same issue and saw the thread linked below. It says you should not have the BOP between Inverter and Batteries as I had done. Anyway, read though.
https://community.victronenergy.com/comments/18261/view.html

1 comment
2 |3000

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

getwilde avatar image getwilde commented ·

That's useful. Thank you!!

0 Likes 0 ·