question

hi, thanks for your reply, i'm starting with solar for now and i'll see about adding wind later on.

i was thinking of using the multiplus to turn on an immersion heater when the batteries reach 100% soc and off again at 95%, could that help avoid the need for a turbine brake? ie just keeping the turbine under load all the time?

@Markus

i was just thinking of not wasting valuable power, i could use a wind specific charge controller with a built in dump load, but the house is too far away from the power shed to use dc but maybe a cheap inverter connected to the dump out from controller?

i don't actually have anything setup yet so this is still hypothetical..

do you know if there would be an issue with have one victron charge controller and one midnite clasic? the other equipment will be victron multiplus, victron ccgx, victron mppt, pylontech batteries.

sorry i should have explained my situation a bit better, i've got 5.4kw of solar which will be way more than i need in the summer but will probably be a bit less than i need in the winter, thats why i want the wind turbine to supplement it in the winter months, i've got 10Kwh of pylontech batteries, they should charge pretty quick from the solar in the summer so i'll have excess power to dump, i want to use it for hot water in the summer cause my hot water and heating are from a wood stove and i won't want to light it in the summer,

another option is (like you said) to have the wind turbine running a grid tied inverter ac coupled to the multiplus, but then i would still be left with the problem of using the excess solar in the summer which is why i was thinking of just having the multiplus turning the water heater on and off at set voltages

Thanks for you help, its much appreciated.

If it helps this guy has lots of info on his site.

http://scoraigwind.co.uk/2016/07/low-cost-mppt-heating-controller-for-wind-turbines/

I have a D400 and have played around with a 100/50 mppt instead and together with the standard TB6 thank comes supplied. Sort answer, not real successful. With just the 100/50 yes it transfers power but due to the way the mppt works the D400 acts like it is not connected to a load, so it spins faster than normal making more noise and eventually does a 360 like it does if not connected. It also didn’t produce any more power than the TB6 which is a PWM controller with dump load. The TB6 is very rudimentary and has no real settings nor monitoring. What I really wanted was the blue tooth monitoring the 100/50 offered. I even tried installing the 100/50 after the TB6 but this also fails as the TB6 doesn’t see the battery voltage out the solar input on the 100/50 so yes the 100/50 sees a voltage at the input from the TB6 but all the current is diverted to the dump load, nothing to the batteries. So far I’m yet to find anything that works better than the supplied TB6 as it seems to control the load to the D400 to keep it spinning at the optimal speed which also means less noise. I think what I need now is Hall field sensor that I can put on either of the output lines of the TB6 that also takes a Bluetooth dongle that just allows the monitoring. I guess I could use something like a BMV but that would be an overkill

• @Houser, @espen, @lief ryan, @markus, @lange1975, @john rushworth,@dod42
• Seems like we all have a commen interest in solar and wind together. Especially using victron mppt as wind controller. I have created a group in facebook called solar and wind knowledge group for enthusiasts. You are all invited.

Hi Markus,

Interested to get two of these to test.

How can we contact you?

Many thanks,

Ross

Speaking as a retired engineer working with aerodynamics: I don't understand why an MPPT charge controller that is intended to work with a power source (photovoltaics) that actually HAS a maximum power point voltage would be used with a wind turbine generator that does NOT have a maximum power point voltage. It seems you all are giving up a lot of power conversion efficiency and introducing unnecessary complexity just to achieve the administration and metering capabilities of the VE MPPTs. And the power losses of an MPPT controller would be far higher than the miniscule loss of Schottky diodes.

As the airfoils ("blades") on a wind turbine spin faster, more parasite drag is created. The wind-to-power conversion efficiency will be maximum at the lowest rotational speed that will keep the entire foil length unstalled. Any rotational speed above that wastes power. That's why you see a gradual rise in the power curve to a maximal point followed by a saturation plateau with a flatter slope in the velocity to power curve with common fixed-pitch-airfoil turbines. The manufactures will often put some twist in the blades to spread out that curve, but at the sacrifice of optimal performance at intermediate rotational speeds.

All an MPPT photovoltaic controller can do is vary the load on the turbine, which would - once the foils are unstalled - have a detrimental affect on power conversion. Simply routing the output directly to the battery through a diode, that will not present a load until the diode is forward-biased to permit spin-up, would be optimal, provided the airfoils are properly designed. Any other improvement in efficiency would have to occur at the air-to-foil interface: some improvement could be achieved by varying the pitch of the airfoils to remain at an optimal angle-of-attack (here is a description of how that is accomplished: https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/50451), but that algorithm is mechanical and is very different than the behavior of an MPPT controller designed for photovoltaics.

If you want Bluetooth interface capability and good metrics on voltage, power and current, I suggest you try using a Smart Shunt instead and let turbine controllers and MPPT controllers do their separate jobs.

I believe you are trying to make applesauce out of oranges.

Reply to all above: Please read the paper below, where achieving a maximum power point was carefully explored. The solution is to use mechanical MPPT variable-pitch airfoils -- not an electronic approach with fixed-pitch airfoils. Trying to use a photovoltaic MPPT controller is reinventing the wheel. It's already been tried -- years ago -- and found to work as well as square wheels. But I'd love to be proved wrong!

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/50451

And here's a description of a variable-pitch vertical axis wind turbine: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315040403_Numerical_Analysis_of_Design_Parameters_With_Strong_Influence_on_the_Aerodynamic_Efficiency_of_a_Small-Scale_Self-Pitch_VAWT/figures?lo=1

Yes, if your turbine controller is too primitive to provide the multi-stage outputs (absorb, float, etc.) you need, then you can use an photovoltaic MPPT controller, albeit with all the losses that will entail. But be prepared for all the unfortunate behaviors described in the thread above. The worst being turbine overspeed while the MPPT unloads the turbine seeking the illusory maximum power point. (BTW, if you really want to go that route, to prevent frying the MPPT controller with overvoltage states, I suggest using zener diodes of appropriate ratings across the turbine output to clamp the output voltage to an upper limit. If the MPPT limit is 100 volts, one of these with a heatsink should work fine: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nte-electronics-inc/NTE5284A/11646599)

What you really need is a controllable variable-pitch impeller to provide that staging. The market should demand that capability instead. Variable-pitch designs also eliminate the need for airfoil twist that trades off coupling efficiency for slow wind speed startup ability.

I'd never try using a photovoltaic MPPT controller on a wind turbine, but those of you who have should try this experiment: configure a DPDT toggle switch to send the turbine output to the MPPT controller or directly to the battery. While measuring the output current in a reasonable amount of wind, switch between the two and see which method: MPPT versus output-direct, produces more power. To be fair, give the MPPT controller time enough to "settle", and then take an honest average of each output because the MPPT controller will be very busy hunting and wasting power while continually running its algorithm.

Personally, I don't need multi-stage charging. I'm using LiFePO4 batteries that do not require absorption or floating. (Does anyone still use lead-acid batteries?) I have 400 AH of LiFePO4 batteries on board my sailboat in a 12 volt bank, and I use a simple voltage/tail current detector to dump the turbine output to a diversion load whenever the terminal voltage reaches 14.2 volts and the tail current drops to 7.5 amps (0.03C). (It's vital to also measure tail current in detecting the end-of-charge threshold!) Charging resumes when the terminal voltage drops to 13.35 volts. It's that simple. A voltage/current sensor and a relay. Done! Complexity is the enemy of reliability. Here's an excellent article on charging LiFePO4 batteries: https://nordkyndesign.com/charging-marine-lithium-battery-banks/.

Anyone who has flown an airplane having a variable-pitch/constant speed propeller knows the advantages: adjusting the pitch provides optimum coupling of power to the airflow with changing airspeeds. The same works in reverse for wind turbines. And to shut it down, you can just feather the airfoils, eliminating all of the loading caused by induced drag, stopping the turbine entirely and providing a much more survivable turbine in high wind conditions.

I looked around, and here is the best yet simplest explanation I found on pitch regulation:

Wind Turbine Aerodynamics: Stall vs Pitch Regulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5T5ZhJQr2o

hi!,

I found this turbine with integrated voltage regulator.

AR-40-10-48

I am planning on installing it at an existing project running MPPT 250/60, four solar panels, a SmartShunt and a 48V battery pack.

According to the user manual, it seems I can connect this turbine directly in parallel onto the batteries.

I am very interested to hear more and possibly purchase two of these devices for a couple of off-grid solar systems that I'm currently designing. I mostly use Victron equipment as to me it presents the most useable modular platform, which is easy to create bespoke systems for my individual customers needs. Up until now I have mostly worked on inland boats and ive not really ventured into wind or hydro as its not presented itself as a cost effective efficient design basis but im now venturing into land based projects which could really benefit from wind power.

I had considered trying to use a b2b system with an Orion but it seems like a round about way to me.

having a Victron turbine regulator would be very useful!!

please tell us more!

Hi Marcus,

I am thinking of adding a low power eg 150W wind turbine to my PV system at a remote mountain hut in the north of Scotland. January's weather pattern has been an endless succession of unsettled cloudy (& windy) days meaning that even with 4kW of PV panels installed the batteries are slowly discharging simply running the base load of virca 17W! I am considering a vertical axis turbine. Less efficient I understand but possibly more robust and quieter in a challenging location. Thus I stumbled upon this thread. I am wanting all the advantages of Victron's remote monitoring, etc and so I am thinking it will be worthwhile waiting for this development to come to market. So 2x questions:

1) Any update on progress?

2) Would this connect to existing MPPT somehow or would additional charger be needed with this as an interface?

Thanks for your time and any info.

Regards,

David BInney

This thread has so much promise and many actual users ready to spend their money on the project that Markus and Warwick are working on with Victron.

I sincerely hope Victron will nudge this higher on the priority list soon, as it makes so much sense.
All the best and many thanks for all your hard work!

What is the status of this new project?

You stated maximum voltage and current that it can handle, with VAWT-turbine I'm not exactly sure of it, but those are typically listed in total power, can it handle 12kw axial-flux generator power?

Hello All.

Just a sugestion but would it not be better to use a dedicated wind turbine with its own dump load ect and connect it to your battery bank as normal (providing the controller can charge lithium). I have seen these turbine controllers online and can't say I think short circuiting the PMA windings as a brake is the best idea ! Why not a wormdrive and brake pad on the turbine shaft with a solenoid driven pin to lock the shaft when it has completely stopped ? Still technical but nowhere near as complex as a full blade pitch and feathering system.

As for the meat of the matter .... Monitoring production for displaying localy and on the vrm why not simply use a BMV712 or Smartshunt set to DC energy monitoring mode ? That would give you separate data on hydro or wind turbine production.

As for a complete Victron turbine based charge controller I would definitely buy the Victron unit but I think that is something best developed with an expert like "cpt-pat" or a turbine manufacturer.

Personally I think OEM for charging / dump control and a BMV712 or Smartshunt for the monitoring is currently the best solution. I'm quite surprised Victron haven't designed an out the box solution already.

Hallo Marcus,

nun könnte ich eine funktionierende Platine gebrauchen.
Kann die Windturbine auch 3-phasig sein?
Ich sehe nur 2 Eingänge

Gruß Mario

Am very interested in a victron charge controller compatible with a wind turbine.

hello Markus,

VERY interested in how the board is doing at the moment!

is there any news? is it possibly even already available for purchase???

many thanks 4 any info!

Jo.

Same here, I am actually fairly surprised that Victron does not have something to interface the DC output of a wind turbine controller with their system such that it can be controlled. Even having an MPPT with a fixed programmable curve will solve the problem. (I am not into splitting differences about a 2% or 5% efficiency discussion if the answer offers a safe integration) This should be possible without too much trouble if Victron is willing to come to the table. The wind and solar combination will offer a far superior renewable energy solution.

I am having to integrate 4 x 5kW turbines with a 135kVA, 320kWh system, and there is no way I will allow the wind controller direct access to my 320kWh Freedom Won battery pack. Wind controller reaction time is just too slow.

This system is supplemented with 50kW SolarEdge grid-tie on the AC output, and the frequency shift control works like a charm.

Having a quality Victron solution for wind integration is long overdue, and I do get the idea that Marcus may be close to an answer, for which we will all be grateful!

Jan

Just to let Markus know I am interested by getting his controler when it is ready for sale (even before with prototype as I am quite handy with IT stuff)

Hi folks, I join the discussion. I made a generator to use with a vertical (therefore slow) turbine. The generator, off the diode bridge, makes me 90V/3A at about 500rpm (about, I think, I couldn't measure exactly) and 12V/0.9A at 120rpm. I wanted to exploit something of power even when the turbine gives me lower voltage (my MPPT 150/45 requires at least 63v at the input to activate). Do you have any solution? Like activating DC step-up when Vin < MPPT min V and deactivating when Vin > ? Thanks for your attention, bye