One Bus Bar set for Multiple Arrays and Controllers?

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adrianp105 asked Sep 07 2022 at 5:20 PM

One Bus Bar set for Multiple Arrays and Controllers?

Hi all, I've designed my system to have three (3) PV arrays (one east facing, one west, and one south - all 18v max @ 100w) - the eccentricities of the area required this odd combination to achieve the desired output. I have three SmartSolar MPPT 75/15s that I intend to connect to a Cerbo GX with VE.Direct cables. It is my understanding that I need the Cerbo with arrays facing different orientations and drastically different performance throughout the day. All of my loads will be 12v DC, so I will not be using an inverter. I had initially planned on doing a separate busbar out of the load side of each controller, then connecting a group of loads to each of those busbars. But I have seen a few schematics where multiple arrays have one positive and one negative bus bar for the entire system. I want to take advantage of the controller load output to regulate the load for sensitive electronics. Is there anything wrong with doing separate busbars for the load out on each controller or am I missing an important feature/benefit to combining the busbars. Thanks in advance.

MPPT Controllers cerbo gx VE.Direct busbar

Mike Dorsett answered · Sep 07 2022 at 5:26 PM

Separate load outputs are fine, you can even set different voltage limits for each of the controllers load switches. I don't see the need for a Cerbo in such a simple system, unless you are also using managed lithium batteries. Careful setting of the MPPT voltages will be needed, as well as attention to volt drop on the battery cables to the MPPT's.

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adrianp105 commented · Sep 07 2022 at 6:23 PM

@Mike Dorsett Thanks! I've been careful to limit the voltage drop between the controllers and battery, and I feel confident that I can calculate/observe that drop. What voltage setting are you referring to that I should be careful about and how do I incorporate the voltage drop information?

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Mike Dorsett adrianp105 commented · Sep 07 2022 at 6:33 PM

The only way of incorporating the volt drop information is with software, either custom, or by a venus device. With small arrays, this should not be requuired, as long as the volt drop (rise) between the mppt and the battery busbar is <50mV. (This can be dificult to do on larger systems - at 70A, my mppt has a 200mV rise ).

The voltage settings for Absorption and Float need to be carefully set, as one MPPT reaching Absorption can put the others into float - particularly if their arrays are shaded at that time. This can cause a loss of energy harvest if one of the MPPT's in float mode later becomes unshaded, and the original mppt then becomes shaded. This can be overcome either by a software command to go back to bulk mode, or by keeping the Float voltage higher on he last mppt to be illuminated

This also depends on your battery type, and how much excess energy you have in your system..

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adrianp105 Mike Dorsett commented · Sep 07 2022 at 6:51 PM

That is great. Would a Cerbo GX automatically manage the algorithm between the three controllers, instead of trial and error with the float/absorption voltage settings? I feel like that might be beyond my capabilities. Thanks @Mike Dorsett !

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Mike Dorsett adrianp105 commented · Sep 08 2022 at 6:45 AM

the cerbo or other Venus device can operate the MPPT's in master/slave mode, which would keep them all in bulk, absorption or float mode.

As noted below, the MPPT's need Vbat +5V to start, though this can drop to Vbat+1V in operation. So you array Voc needs to be at least 19V for correct operation. Higher voltage is better, so if you have multiple panels in an array do wire them in series.

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adrianp105 Mike Dorsett commented · Sep 09 2022 at 4:54 PM

So, I did a test with one of the panels and it is producing 25v according to my multimeter. That should be sufficient to get the charger running. I've been searching Victron's prodigious catalog of manuals and data sheets to find something I read a while back, no luck finding it though. Basically it said that if you have arrays facing different orientations (such as one facing east and another facing west) the Cerbo (or other GX) is required as the VE.Direct between the controllers alone is not sufficient to optimize the charging algorithm. Does anyone know which manual that would have been in or if that makes any sense?

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Leslieanne answered · Sep 08 2022 at 7:09 AM

Hi,

If you were to add a BMV or a Smartshunt to your system (well worth it anyway so you know what your battery is doing), then voltage drop and coordination of controllers is no problem at all. Simply set up a ve network over Bluetooth (BMV or Smartshunt first, then add the mppts to that network), set the same charge parameters on each controller and that's it. It's very simple, no need for a GX device.

Cheers, Leslie

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adrianp105 commented · Sep 09 2022 at 4:57 PM

I did order a Smartshunt based on your comment and others as well. I've been searching Victron's prodigious catalog of manuals and data sheets to find something I read a while back, no luck finding it though. Basically it said that if you have arrays facing different orientations (such as one facing east and another facing west) the Cerbo (or other GX) is required as the VE.Direct between the controllers alone is not sufficient to optimize the charging algorithm. Does anyone know which manual that would have been in or if that makes any sense?

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Leslieanne adrianp105 commented · Sep 09 2022 at 11:12 PM

Hi Adrian,

Maybe you are worrying too much!

If you use the ve Bluetooth network (no ve direct cables needed) then the true battery voltage and current (from the smartshunt) is sent to the mppts, and they will all switch to absorption and then float, based on your battery voltage and tail current settings...as they should, regardless of orientation. If the battery voltage later drops as you use power, then the mppts will switch back to bulk according to your rebulk setting. Make that close to your float setting if you want to keep the charge level very high until sundown. I have had a similar system with 2 x 75/15 mppts and a 100/30 mppt with LiFePO4 batteries for years on a caravan. It works well, as it did even before Victron introduced the synchronised charging feature to the Bluetooth network. But, seeing all controllers switch states at the same time seems to keep some folks happier!

Cheers, Leslie

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adrianp105 Leslieanne commented · Sep 14 2022 at 3:02 PM

Thanks!

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Answer 1 · 2022-09-08T05:26:33Z

kevgermany answered · Sep 08 2022 at 5:26 AM

An observation. You say max panel voltage is 18. You need to be higher than this for the MPPTs to start charging ( more than actual battery voltage+5). Hopefully your panels will be wired in a series/parallel setup.

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One Bus Bar set for Multiple Arrays and Controllers?

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