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b-champ avatar image
b-champ asked

Setting up 2 Multiplus units with a Cerbo GX

I just purchased a system from my battery and Victron supplier. The system includes two Multiplus units and one Cerbo GX. Now, after taking delivery of the system, my supplier tells me I cannot use a Cerbo GX with the 2 Multis. This is very frustrating, since I went to great expense to have all critical components communicate via a Cerbo.
I have the two Multis in order to supply 6000 total watts to both 50 amp AC lines of my RV.

So, the question is: How can I use the Cerbo GX with the 2 Multis? Is there a workaround?

cerbo gx
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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

You need to configure the two units to work in split phase mode. This is covered in Victron training but your supplier should have done this for you. I’d try to get them involved.

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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

Or parallel mode.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ve.bus:manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems

@B. Champ I moved that question to the normal Q&A space.

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b-champ avatar image b-champ commented ·
Thanks, Kevin! The problem for me is: The two Multiplus units were supposedly programmed by my Victron distributor to work in split phase (3000 watts continuous on each leg). They even drew up a simple schematic which showed both Multis connected to the Cerbo. But now, after taking delivery they are telling me it can’t be done, and that the Cerbo will only ever function with one. This is NOT what I expected when I ordered and paid handsomely for this system though.

Can someone at Victron reach out to the distributor (a very well known and respected battery manufacturer in the US) and inform them as to how this can be done?

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klim8skeptic avatar image klim8skeptic ♦ b-champ commented ·
Note that both multi's have to be the same model # and the same hardware revision.

There should be a sticker on both units with that info.

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b-champ avatar image b-champ klim8skeptic ♦ commented ·

The only number that is different on the white sticker on the outside of the shipping container box is a number beginning with the letters HQ.18565b0a-9ec5-481a-ae9a-c1c833bb801e.jpegImage Caption

71cbb89a-ba60-4287-95bc-153fb3a79850.jpeg
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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

There are notes in Victron documentation that indicate a GX device can only control one Multi, BUT when properly configured as multi-phase and/or parallel operation all the Multis appear as a single unit to the GX. This certainly IS possible and they should know this and done the programming. They sold you a system. They need to be responsible to make it work!

If you can’t get anywhere with your dealer, you can do the programming yourself using VictronConnect on a Mac or PC. An Mk3 USB cable is needed. But you really should have some guidance.

Training is available on professional.victronenergy.com

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b-champ avatar image b-champ commented ·
Thanks, Kevin. I really do wish Victron would have made their Multiplus II 5000 for the U.S. market. That would have solved several problems for me. But wishing doesn’t make it so.


The configuration for my 50 amp RV service is simple though—each Multi is on one leg. So, one Multi supplies 120AC inverter power to line 1, and the other to line 2.

Now, I’m left wondering whether I should have gone with some other solution, or whether the supplier should have even sold me the Cerbo to begin with.
They also insisted that I design my system as a 12 volt system, but I have not thought that to be wise, since I have 2400 watts of solar and 12,996 watt hours worth of batteries. The amps are off the chart; and I’ve also had to buy bigger MPPTs and 4/0 cable for most everything!

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b-champ avatar image b-champ b-champ commented ·
They also told me I could not use a Mac, which is the only computer and portable devices I own.
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b-champ avatar image b-champ commented ·
Since Victron does not offer a 60 Hz Multiplus II 5kv model, should I have purchased a 12 or 24 volt Quattro instead of the two Multis? I think the Quattro does work with a Cerbo GX… right?
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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ b-champ commented ·
You can setup every MultiPlus/Quattro to 60Hz
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b-champ avatar image b-champ Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·
I was told by the Victron distributor that, the 5kv Multiplus 2 was only a European 50 Hz unit, and that it wouldn’t work in the U.S.

Are you saying that it can be programmed to supply two 120 AC legs at 60 Hz?

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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ b-champ commented ·

You can set it to 60Hz but the output voltage can only be set between 210-245V.

You can download VE.config and use the demo mode to see what you can do.

Victron is an european company so they are mostly focused at the european market.

But there are also some 120V devices available. For example that:

https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-ii-2x-120v

You can also take a look into it price list to see what other products are available for 120V.

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pricelist/Web_Pricelist_Victron-EURO_2022-Q2_lnPNgvl.pdf

And you maybe should look for another dealer. The one you have right now seems to be not the best.

https://www.victronenergy.com/where-to-buy

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b-champ avatar image b-champ Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·
Thanks Matthias! Yes, I was aware of the 3k Multiplus 2, and that it was 60 Hz for the U.S. market. But I need more than just 3k watts of inverter power.


I asked about the 5k model, but was told it was 50 Hz only and that I could not use it. So, that’s why we went with the two standard Multis.

And if you are saying that the 5k can‘t be setup to supply 120v AC, then I guess they are right.

So, what route do you think I should take, given I would like to have at least 2.5 to 3k watts available to each leg, and want both legs to communicate with the Cerbo?

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BlueTrepidation avatar image BlueTrepidation b-champ commented ·

You can use a Mac easily. Just install "Oracle Virtural Box" and then download the Windows 10 iso installer. This is free no need to buy a Windows key. Just use Windows in trial mode. Then you want to install "VE Configure Tools" from the downloads section.


If you are tech savvy you can even run the VE Configure Tools utilities without Windows using the Wine compatibility layer. See winehq.org. (I use this on Debian and it works great.)


Now all you need is the Victron Mk3 USB cable and an Ethernet cord. Then you can program the inverters yourself. Multiplus II also work at 60 Hz split phase in the US. Remember when setup for split phase the controller sees the two inverters as one unit basically.


A.J.


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b-champ avatar image b-champ BlueTrepidation commented ·
Thanks for that info! So, the Cerbo will not indicate how many watts or amps are being delivered to line 1 and line 2 separately? I would like to know this so that I won’t experience a possible overload. For example, if I’m running one of my air conditioners, it will be drawing 2,000 watts alone, which doesn’t give me much overhead for anything else on that leg.
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ b-champ commented ·
Just remember, it is 3000VA, which is 2400W at 25 degrees C. It will drop off further above this.
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b-champ avatar image b-champ nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Yes, and that’s another reason why I need more than 3000 watts continuous. It just seems to be a bit of a challenge here in the U.S. to have more than 3k and still have the Multis properly communicate with a Cerbo for each 120v leg.
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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

You should carefully look at all the Victron products at their web site: victronenergy.com

The ONLY single unit that will support split phase power is the Multiplus II 3000 VA 120x2. It has a single inverter that will feed both legs when shore power isn’t available.

ALL other systems will require TWO Multis or Quattros to produce 120/240 volt split phase. 3000 VA is as much as you can get from a single Multi. So you’d get 6000 VA when you combine both legs of your split phase service. As mentioned previously, the maximum power from theses units is 2400 watts ad 25 degrees C, not 3000 watts. If you need more power than 2400 watts per leg, you’d need two Quatros. Plus, if you go over 3000 VA per leg, you’d need a 24 or 48 volt battery system.

12 volts will be marginal to provide 6000 VA to a pair of inverters but can be done with careful attention to wire sizes and keeping wire runs short.

The stock flow overview screen WILL list L1 and L2 power plus the total of both legs. Obviously, the individual leg power is the most important. I also have some enhanced pages that deliver additional information including power gauges so you can see your power relative to limits graphically, but get the system running before playing with enhancements.

https://github.com/kwindrem/GuiMods


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b-champ avatar image b-champ commented ·
Kevin, thanks for taking the time to explain this, and for the link!

So, the bottom line is: it appears I will need to keep what I already have—2, 120v 3000VA Multis, if I go ahead with a 12v system.
Would an autotransformer help with what I am trying to do?

I’m not sure if I’ll keep the Cerbo GX if it cannot monitor each leg of each Multi separately, and will only see both Multis as one unit.
If there is a workaround for this, I’d like to know about it.

I’m seriously thinking of returning my 2, 12v Multiplus units for 2 24v ones, and setting my entire system up for 24 volts. That would not only cut the amperage in half and allow for smaller cable gauges, but it would also give me more solar room to grow with my 2, 150/100 MPPTs.

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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

Keep the Cerbo. It will show you all the information you’ll need. Read through the training on Multi-phase and parallel inverter/chargers for more information on how this works and how it is configured.

I’d highly recommend speaking out a new dealer who is interested in providing you the technical support you’ll need to get this system working.

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b-champ avatar image b-champ commented ·
Thanks, I’ll keep the Cerbo, but I do wish it would provide information on each leg individually.


I’ll have to stick with the dealer though, since I have already purchased the system from them—2400 solar watts and 12,996 watt hours of battery storage, 3 MPPTs, etc—and they are geographically very far away.

The dealer has been fairly responsive, but my main point of disagreement with them right now is their insistence that I configure the system as 12v.

Question: If I use 2 Multiplus II units in parallel instead, would they do a better job of regulating the 3,000 watts over each leg?
And would the Cerbo recognize both legs or just see them as one unit and one leg?

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Kevin Windrem avatar image Kevin Windrem b-champ commented ·
Cerbo WILL show you power on both legs on the flow overview and in the menu for the Multi.


If you configure the Multis in parallel you would need to limit your RV power to 6000 watts and not be able to use the second leg at all. This is not the way to go!

Switching to 24 volts will require additional components so you can provide 12 volts to your RV’s DC loads.

You need help from someone who understands Victron components and RV systems.

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b-champ avatar image b-champ Kevin Windrem commented ·
Thanks, I’m now settled on configuring it as a 24v system; and I’m returning the 12v Multis for two standard Multiplus 24v models.


Thankfully, I only have two 12v accessories which draw their power directly from the battery and not the 120AC to 12v DC converter. So, I will purchase an appropriately sized Orion for those loads.
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