question

bipedalprimate avatar image
bipedalprimate asked

ESS, Fronius, Zero Feed-In, 1:1 Rule

Whilst understanding that the 1:1 Rule applies when Fronius is connected on AC-Out so that a Multi/Quattro will control output of Fronius with frequency shifting, there appears to be a different approach when ESS is used.

In the document AC-coupled PV with Fronius PV Inverters (https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ac_coupling:fronius) it states:

2.5 Zero Feed-in
It is possible to make a Zero feed-in system with Victron & Fronius. The Venus device will the control
the Fronius output power. See the ESS manual, chapter 4.3.11 Fronius Zero feed-in for details.

This suggests the Multi/Quattro does NOT do frequency shift to control output of Fronius.

ESS manual 4.3.11 talks about setting the GX device & changing some parameters on the Fronius. The communication method between GX & Fronius must be TCP & both devices must be on the LAN.

So, this raises a question.

Given 2.5 Zero Feed-in suggests GX controls Fronius output (not Multi/Quattro), does the 1:1 Rule still apply?

Let us assume that a 3kva Victron with full batteries and a 5kva Fronius (on Victron AC-out) on a STC day and generating 5kva.

Suddenly, the only load of 4kva stops.

The Fronius must reduce its output by 2kva to 3kva.

The rationale of the 1:1 rule is that frequency shifting to reduce output is too slow to respond.

The intent of the question is does the GX device respond fast enough to communicate to the Fronius to reduce output by 2kva (and possibly does the Multi/Quattro have enough surge capacity and duration on AC-out) before 'bad things happen'.

If it can, the 1:1 rule is probably not necessary.

ESSFronius
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3 Answers
Paul B avatar image
Paul B answered ·

As far as I am aware

The one to one 1:1 ALWAYS APPLYS in relation to the connected PV on the AC out of the Multi or quattro

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sebastianlehmann avatar image
sebastianlehmann answered ·

Think a bit what you are asking. your answer lies in the question.

Victron is 3000VA and you are asking if you can pass more thant that. It is simply not possible.

Use grid parallel if your Fronius is bigger than the Victron.

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Matthias Lange - DE avatar image
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

As long as grid is available the Fronius will be controlled via ModBusTCP.
In case of a grid failure the system will start using frequency shifting.

2 comments
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bipedalprimate avatar image bipedalprimate commented ·
Why would the GX device relinquish Fronius output control to the Multi/Quattro & frequency shift?
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baxter avatar image baxter bipedalprimate commented ·
Because control by modbus using a network is not reliable in case of a grid outage. You never know if the network is still available. FQ shifting is always working
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