question

rich avatar image
rich asked

Pylontech's not charging

Hi all,

Im having problems with my new system that i've just installed.

Spec is;

3 x Pylontech US2000C

2 x Pylontech US2000's

1 x Pylontech US2000 Plus

1 x Cerbo GX - FW V2.73

1 x SmartSolar MPPT VE.Can 150/85 FW V3.10

1 x Quattro 48/8000/110 FW 481


I Initially set everything up without the Quattro as it hadn't arrived yet. The batteries were all happy and charged from the MPPT from 30-40% to 100%. About 2 weeks later my Quattro arrived, i set it up according to the Victron Pylontech document, i then discharged the batteries a bit, to around 60% SOC, but the MPPT wouldn't charge them again (Currently no AC in to the Quattro wired up yet, just a single AC out). I kept discharging to around 20% and 3 days later it still hast charged from the MPPT again. I have attached screenshots of my VRM instance, and also a few of the Pylontech BatteryView, showing 'Discharge Current = Null', im not sure if this is the issue?

VRM is showing all 6 Pylontech modules, with the correct capacity and correct charge current limits (150a).

I have noticed the 3 old Pylontechs are all showing 'Phamtom S' firmware, so unsure if these have had the wrong firmware applied at some point? But the fact they charged as expected initially is making me think this might not be the issue?

Do you have any ideas? The other thing i found strange is when discharging the load, the system was powering it purely from the batteries and still no Solar input. I assumed in this scenario the GX device would try and use the MPPT to power the load regardless of what the Pylontech BMS requests?


Thanks

Rich

battery-1-us2000c.pngbattery-4-us2000.png

vrm-overview.jpgpylontech-cell-info.jpg

pylontech-charge-current.jpgmppt.jpg

battery chargingPylontechsmart solar charging behaviour
battery-1-us2000c.png (79.5 KiB)
battery-4-us2000.png (78.5 KiB)
vrm-overview.jpg (172.7 KiB)
pylontech-cell-info.jpg (255.5 KiB)
pylontech-charge-current.jpg (185.8 KiB)
mppt.jpg (244.6 KiB)
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9 Answers
nickdb avatar image
nickdb answered ·

Sounds like the bms is blocking the battery modules.

Some times happens when the inverter caps charge on initial connection, did you follow the procedure to avoid this issue?

You should run through the pylon setup which is clearly detailed on victrons battery compatibility page- easy to google.

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rich avatar image rich commented ·

Hi,

This could well be the problem, i have set the system up as per this document;

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom

But i cant see anything about starting procedure? There is also no modules blocking charge according to VRM? If this is the case, how do I reset the batteries?


Thanks for the help

Rich

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ rich commented ·
It would be helpful to get this into VRM so you can chart the metrics.

If batteries are online it should work fine.

When the BMS protects, it will report modules as being offline for charge/discharge.

You should also see this in the logs via Battery View.


Mppt's will cease to produce solar when they see the Voltage is on or above the battery's CVL, this can happen if the system isn't correctly setup (broken comms) or if there is voltage loss in the wiring. So it pays to measure everything by hand and compare to what is reported.

You do seem to have a bit of a min/max cell variation, that may be contributing.

It is difficult to tell with a point in time snapshot of data, a longer view c/o VRM would help.


Also, make sure the most modern battery (or most recent firmware) is master.


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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ rich commented ·

To add to the previous comment, it is strange that discharge current is limited to 75A, it implies that 3 packs are online not 6, yet 6 are reported.

I see you have a battery on 1.3 firmware and one on 1.7. As stated, make sure the master is the most recent code, you may need to shuffle the comms cables etc to change the master.

You could have an issue where an old BMS is running the roost and not playing nice with newer ones - you have a bit of a mix of models, which doesn't help.

If all else fails, contact pylon and get them to supply the latest code for each and the process to do it, be careful, they can be bricked, so don't fiddle unless advised to do so.

Occasionally, powering all the modules off then starting the master, and then subsequent packs can help get everything talking again.

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rich avatar image rich nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Will double check voltages at terminals but everything should be well within spec. Yep, one of the US2000C's is the master. Discharge current has only dropped to 75A now the batteries are pretty heavily discharged, prior to this charge and discharge were both 150A.


If i have contacted Pylon with screenshots of all battery views of all batteries, including the comment that the 3 older US2000's are called 'Phantom S' in firmware. I have done a few power cycles where i've powered everything down and restarted again, it hasnt made a difference so far. Im fairly sure that its the BMS's blocking charge but none of them are saying so and every BMS is reporting no faults and all cells looking relatively happy and balanced.


Thanks

Rich

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ rich commented ·

Maybe upload your quattro config file here for a double-check.

Might be worth getting AC connected and checking ESS is working properly, assuming the assistant is currently loaded and operational.

The mixed bag of batteries and versions could be an issue, pylon will need to advise.

When you added the quattro the mppt would have become under external control, so all of that setup and connectivity should be sorted and checked.

DVCC should be forced on, the battery monitor in system setup should be the BMS.

Failing all the above, you could always test by disconnecting the older batteries and see if the 2000C's work fine on their own.


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wkirby avatar image wkirby ♦♦ rich commented ·
Another thing I have spotted is that battery 4 US2000 is showing as a Phantom S in batteryview. That seems odd to me.
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rich avatar image rich wkirby ♦♦ commented ·
Hi,


Yep, all 3 old ones are showing as 'Phantom S' on BatteryView, i've asked Pylontech about this so i'll report back with what they say. Although the fact it charged initially until i introduced the Quattro is throwing me a little.

Thanks

Rich

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rich avatar image
rich answered ·

Well i’ve had a bit more time to play, and it seems like the its a problem with the battery BMS. They quite often seem to be going to sleep and not waking up. Turning off all the batteries then turning them straight back on again and the solar charger suddenly starts charging them back up. I guess i’ll have to wait for Pylontech to get back to me.


Thanks for the help everyone

Rich

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
If you restart your cerbo does it also start working?

Try change ESS modes to "keep batteries charged" does it work then also?

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rich avatar image rich nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Hi,


Thanks, i’ll give that a go. ESS isnt set up on mine though as its currently working off grid.


Rich

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bulraydin avatar image bulraydin commented ·

Hi, did you get any reply from pylontech. In one of our systems we have started having the same issue. After 6 months of healthy operation, now the battery soc is stuck at 79% although there is enough sun. We have installed 6 x US2000 Phantom S 48V 50Ah batteries.

No errors, no notifications...


I am curious to know, if you could solve the problem.

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rich avatar image rich bulraydin commented ·
Nope, nothing from Victron or Pylontech which is a bit disappointing. I’ll send another email to Pylontech now.


Rich

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agroventuresperu avatar image agroventuresperu rich commented ·
You're not alone with this kind of problem.
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agroventuresperu avatar image agroventuresperu bulraydin commented ·
Did you figure it out?
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stevn avatar image
stevn answered ·

same here with brandnew system...

1x Victron cerbo - 3x Multi II (upgrade to newest Firmware) - 6x US2000 - cabling / configuration like above regarding scripts from Victron/Pylontech website - DC-current (52v) at Pylontech-Input (Voltmeter) - solar installer helpless, say it must work.
result: Pylontech not loading ... stand on sustain-mode.

does anybody heart from a solution for that?
any feedback from Victron or Pylontech?



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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
There are no problems with either the pylons or victron gear. It is almost always installation and configuration. There are so many potential causes and it just isn’t possible to diagnose with so little information. Please open your own thread and properly document your environment with settings, wiring diagrams, connectivity and all the specifics of what equipment you have. In the meanwhile there are plenty of setup guides on this site for configuring pylons and 3phase/parallel systems. The answer will probably be contained in one of them.
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choicelocks avatar image
choicelocks answered ·

It is strange that lots of people are asking questions but we cannot find the answers on the forum I think victron and pylontech are a huge problem but no one at either company wants to step in and help. I think we should collectively make a YouTube video up and make our comments under it to help victron see that they need to help. I have easy solar and 2 2000c I have followed all the manuals over 4 weeks and asked multiple questions on the forum and had help from victron trained dealer with programming but just been told engage a professional installer. I m wishing I had never bought victron or pylontech because support doesn’t exist. They are overpriced products. And the description easy solar is a lie.

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Frank avatar image Frank commented ·

I have done many Victron offgrid systems all with US3000c lithium batteries and very happy,the biggest mistake is the BMS cable to the cerbo is plugged in wrong after that i never had a any issues

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dirk-s avatar image dirk-s Frank commented ·
Fully agree. Not any issues with Victron and Pylontech. It's a very uncomplicated combination at all.

Only issue could be the bms cable differentiation between type A and B and the mixture of different types of Pylontech. But there are also rules by Pylontech. If there is an issue it should be solved with Pylontech. For example Firmware update and the right order of the different types of Pylontech batteries.

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Rubik Klaus avatar image
Rubik Klaus answered ·

Having the exactly same issue with my installation. Have you got any solution in the meantime?

kind regards

Klaus

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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ commented ·
@KlaRubik

By exactly the same issue, you mean a mixed pylontec bank not charging?

Make sure all victron firmware is up to date.

Of you have an ESS syste. Set it to keep charged. Check the DCL and CCL in the GX menu.

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Rubik Klaus avatar image Rubik Klaus Alexandra ♦ commented ·

Yes, the batteries only start charging after being powered off and on again.
All FW up2date and the parameters (i.e. DCL, CCL, etc.) are checked and correct

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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ Rubik Klaus commented ·
Are the new ones the master batteries?
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Rubik Klaus avatar image Rubik Klaus Alexandra ♦ commented ·
Both are the same age
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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ Rubik Klaus commented ·

Newer firmware models must be the master.

Sometimes a bit of experimentation is needed.

Same age from store bought date is not really an indication of newer/older.

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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ Alexandra ♦ commented ·
You might end up running withiut battery comms in the end.

Probably something you dont want to hear.


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Lars Filusch avatar image
Lars Filusch answered ·

more or less the same problem

2x 150/70 CAN

2x Pylontech C3000

2x Multiplus 48/3000

no ESS

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/223489/smartsolar-mppt-vecan-15070-stops-charging.html


an there are some more system having the same problem with pylontechs



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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ commented ·
@Lars78

Are all the firmware updates done?

I have seen with Pylontec the charging does not work well when parts of the system (usually mppts and GX) are up to date but the inverter is not. This is the most overlooked update.

Then it is best not to up date anything after that unless you do the whole system again. But why chabge what is working?

I have many systems with Pylons in the field none with these problems. Ranging from single battery banks to over 25.

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Lars Filusch avatar image Lars Filusch Alexandra ♦ commented ·

@Alexandra

everything is up to date.
except the pylontech batterys.

there are several system out there with the same problem. I found at least 3 here in the community.

no charging with mppt for no reason.

i thing it is time that Victron and pylontech have to solve the problem @mvader (Victron Energy) because there is no solution for the problem out there.


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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ Lars Filusch commented ·

@Lars78

Are you grid connected with the no ESS? Or conditional connection?

Has the mppt been prgrammed with a lithium profile then edited for pylontec voltages? Check the rebulk offset there as well. I saw on the other post your kppt randomly switche doff at 9am.

I think your situation is different to the article you linked there.

I have found in troubleshooting there is often a set up reason.

The second troubleshooting tip is to remove comms to the mppts, set up for no bms control ith corect programming of lith profile and 52v and 51v and see if that makes a difference. (Not permanent just a temp set up and test)

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Lars Filusch avatar image Lars Filusch Alexandra ♦ commented ·
not grid connected no ESS, installed in a truck.

Charging with shore power / Multiplus works as expected.

Mpps programmed as mention, the on/off was a tryout to manually start the mppts by the owner.

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Alexandra avatar image Alexandra ♦ Lars Filusch commented ·

Yeah. I called in on a site where the owner kept flipping the incoming breaker to wake up the mppts.

His issue was the in inverter was not updated when the rest of the system was.

Is one of the newer batteries the master one?

With no ESS the MPPTs will likely wait for the rebulk offset before producing. So the mppts need to have that set.

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Lars Filusch avatar image Lars Filusch Alexandra ♦ commented ·
As you can see the SOC is down to sometimes 70, 30 % should be low enough to rebulk. Next morning the MPPTs does not start even the batterys are down to 30%.

both battery’s have the same age.


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Rubik Klaus avatar image
Rubik Klaus answered ·

I read out the console Information, both have exactly the same values beside the barcode value (differs only on the last digit)

SW Version 1.7

Release Date 20-12-11

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Rubik Klaus avatar image
Rubik Klaus answered ·

Both batteries (US3000C) have been upgraded to FW V.2.8, this seems to fix the issue

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Rubik Klaus avatar image Rubik Klaus commented ·
The FW update did not really solve the issue, at the end it turned out, that the MPPTs had an HW issue. They were changed by an RMA request free of charge.

Details see this link


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Jona Aal avatar image
Jona Aal answered ·

Having similar issues on off grid system I installed 1yr ago:

4x 3000c Batteries

Multiplus2 5000/48

cerbo gx

mppt 250/100 with 4kW of panels

'Internal Failure' alarms reasonably frequently immediately after install, cleared by power cycle. Resurfaced again three days ago after 50% -100% SOC cycle. Alarm reset again today, no current alarms, plenty of sun, system at 25% SOC and has not charged over the last 2 days above 5-10W

System worked fine until a couple of days ago. Documentation re setup followed, firmware updated on all devices at the same time (apart from the batteries, which were as they came) Maybe this is the issue as one battery has a significantly different S/N.

Not sure where to start looking for battery monitor software/support? Pylontech website is a shocker...

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Rubik Klaus avatar image Rubik Klaus commented ·
Checkout this website, it's the one of the German distributor. You will find there the latest FW and Update tools
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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·
Internal failure means a battery problem. What are the main and Max cell voltages?
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Jona Aal avatar image Jona Aal kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·
Hi there,


Internal failure seems to be reasonable well documented as the way that cell voltage differences are reported. It doesn't seem a good way to do it, and isn't very helpful in determining actual faults.


In my case, the min is 3.277 and the max is 3.278 both on battery 0101. There is currently no failure alarm but the batteries seem to be refusing charge from the mppt, even today when there has been generation of 3kWh on a neighboring system with fewer panels in a less good location.


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Related Resources

Victron Pylontech battery compatibility guide

VictronConnect VE.Bus charging manual  

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