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Hello,
as the Multiplus-II does not accept generators if configured for the german grid we need to use Victron Quattros-II 48/5000/70-50-50 QUA482504010. They can be bought in Germany but seem to lack certifications for the german grid.
When will the certifications for the german grid be available?
It would be sad if we have to switch to another manufacturer than Victron because of the lack of generator-support/certifications.
Thanx for any hint! :-)
It may be because the 5kVA Quattro does not meet the certification requirements and therefore would not get a certificate.
The 8kVA Quattro has got a VDE certificate for DE. I realise that it is probably not within the budget, but that is the smallest Quattro with VDE certification.
Wie ich es auch in dem anderen Thema geschrieben habe, wird das sicher noch einige Wochen dauern und das ist auch nichts das Victron beschleunigen kann, da die Zertifikate ja von einem externen Prüfinstitut ausgestellt werden.
As I wrote in the other thread it will surely take some weeks and Victron can do nothing about that, because the certificate is tested in an external institute.
A rough timetable would be great to see if we can count on the Quattro-II.
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
What's the state of the certification process for the german grid?
Is there any certification process?
Will there be any certification process?
Thanx for any hint
As written above, there are already unit (Multiplus II ) which are certified for the grid code. Not all products will get this certificate as there are hardware differences.
Hi @Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff),
is your answer a "no" to OPs question?
If it is, why is it possible to select e.g. AT/DE grid codes in VeConfigure on a Quattro2?
Thanks for a clear answer in advance,
Markus
Not sure what you mean.
The units which are compling to the grid code have the option for the selection. Others without compliance don't have this option(of course)
What I mean is, in order to get a ESS system with Quattro2 allowed in DE/AT, you have to show a compliance certificate to the electricity provider.
Like this one for the Multiplus2 3k and 5k:
Certificate-TOR-Erzeuger-Typ-A-v1.1-All-MultiPlus-II-(GX)-3k-&-5k.pdf (victronenergy.de)
It is not enough for the electricity providers, just to tell to them, that a certain grid code can be configured on the units, to get a system approved.
The same is true for 8k and 10k Multiplus2.
Thanks and best Regards,
Markus
The thing is that if a unit isn't certified yet there will be no grid code option either. If you have a unit installed which isn't certified, there is not selection for the specific grid code possible. Was it promised to you it was there when you bought this unit? I am not sure if/when there will be a certificate for this specific unit I am afraid.
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
"The thing is that if a unit isn't certified yet there will be no grid code option either"
Please be informed, that this is not the case on MP2 8k and 10k and on the Quattro2 5k
Best Regards,
Markus
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
After buying a Multiplus-II 48/5000/70 we found multiple statements in this forum that a Multiplus-II configured to german grid-code does not accept current from a generator (Automatic-Transfer-Switch installed between grid/generator and Multiplus-II). So we returned the Multiplus-II.
We were referred to the Quattro-(II) series with integrated ATS. When I checked the Victron website about the Quattro-II 48/5000/70 I realized there is no certification for the german grid.
Situation:
Basically we want to start with a small system that can be scaled up to off-grid when the building gets insulated (HVAC, heat-pump, etc.). UPS functionality is important. Currently we want to optimize own consumption without feeding into the grid but depending on legal and market situation it should be possible to feed current into the grid.
Hello, You can of course add a third party DNS safety relay to the system to make it complying to the code you want.
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
Now I'm completely confused. For ESS it is necessary to set the correct grid code.
According to multiple comments of @Matthias Lange - DE in this forum a Multiplus II with a german grid code most likely will not accept generator input. How would a DNS safety relay solve this?
I'm not sure if a "DNS safety relay" is the same as an anti-islanding-relay like the Ziehl UFR1001E.
The grid will go through that relay and you can disable the gird code inside the MP-II.
Behind the relay you have to install a switch to switch between grid and generator.
What is the German Grid Code “VDE -AR-N whatever numbers “external NS protection” for?
Isn’t this the grid code to be selected, to be certified with external ENS like Ziehl?
In my view there is no chance for ESS in AT/DE with “other not compliant” even with external ENS used.
BR
A grid code is needed to comply to a certain area/network. For ESS one is needed to be elected but this can also be set as "other" so you may make settings as you want (for example to make the genes working). To then still a grid compliance is needed which would require a external DNS in the grid line,
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
Hi, how do you configure e.g. Q(u) or P(f) functionality with grid code “other” and external anti islanding relay hardware only?
This is required by most local EVUs.
In DE, there is the grid code VDE AR-N “external NS protection” to be grid compliant with external NS protection hardware
BR
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
The best option would be to have a certified Quattro-II. Especially as the Multiplus-II cannot monitor grid and generator state behind an external Automatic-Transfer-Switch.
Bottom-line: Using a Multiplus-II with grid-code VDE AR-N “external NS protection”, ATS and external NS-device like the 500,- € UFR1001E currently is the only way to use a generator?
Hi, @renne
no - sorry, as long as you have to select a e.g. DE/AT grid code, the grid rules are too strict, for most gensets to be accepted at the AC-input of a Multi and even a Quattro2.
Matthijs is aware of this, and maybe there will be a solution for the Quattro2, but not now.
The only good working solution at the moment, is to use an extra charger for your genset to charge the batteries in a ESS.
See here:
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
It's quite weird the Quattro-II has two AC-ins but can only handle grid input while the manual describes grid + genset operation.
You may want to update the manual.
Ja, das geht.
Eigenverbrauch der PV ist dann aber nur möglich, wenn Du Dich mit ignore AC als Insel vom Netz trennst.
Sonst ist das dann eine USV Anlage, die bei Netzausfall über PV nachladen kann und mit einem Quattro2 oder aber auch einem Multiplus+ATS ist dann eine Generatoreinbindung möglich.
Hi Matthijs,
is ESS + genset a software-only problem with the Quattro-II or are there hardware limitations?
We were able to get a Quattro2 allowed by a local EVU, to be used for a ESS installation in AT, by selecting the non existent AT Tor Erzeuger grid code in VeConfigure and using external anti islanding hardware.
BR
@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)
There is no CE certification document in the download area of the Quattro-II.
Does this mean there is no CE certification???
No answer is also an answer.
Any update on this? A couple of weeks, you might say, passed.
Wir warten auch schon dringend auf die Zertifizierung der Quattro-II Geräte um sie in Österreich ohne dezidierten ENS Schutz einsetzen zu können.
Zu Beginn 2022 bekamen wir die Auskunft das die Zertifikate in Arbeit seien. Aber jetzt ist gleich 2023 und noch immer finden wir keinen Hinweis darauf ob das Zertifikat je kommt.
Haben gerade vier Geräte da liegen und möchten sie regulär ans Netz bringen.
Kann uns möglicherweise einer der hier mitlesenden Victron Mitarbeiter sagen, wann es so weit ist?
Over a year has passed , how about an update ? Potential and existing customers need to know where they stand with this product. If there are no plans to ever certify it for Germany or UK then we need to know .
I feel I have been misled by Victron's literature regarding the Quattro 2 .
Any update?
Seesm it was a tough job, but ending on a positiv note. Thanks for the efforts :D
Are this the needed ones? :-)
https://www.victronenergy.de/upload/documents/Certificate-TOR-Erzeuger-Typ-A-v1.1-Quattro-II-48V-5kVA-230V.pdf
https://www.victronenergy.de/upload/documents/Certificate-ESS-VDE-AR-N-4105-2018-11-NAS-Quattro-II-48V-5kVA-230V.pdf
