question

Schalk van der Merwe avatar image
Schalk van der Merwe asked

Issue with ESS taking power from Grid

Hi

I am an installer who has installed THIS system more than 30 times. Total of about 60 installs on VRM.

The problem is ESS keeps on taking power from grid instead of DC/battery/PV. Day and night. It also does not export power to 'non-essential' loads ("AC Loads" as per VRM).

screenshot-2022-01-10-131029.png

We have:

  • MultiPlus II 48/5000/70
  • Smart Solar 250/70
  • Lynx Distributor
  • Cerbo GX + Touch
  • ET112
  • Freedom Won 5/4 battery

Config:

  • See attached VE.Config file.20220106 MPII 48-5000-70 2623481.zip
  • ESS as per manual for Freedom Won, set to 35% SoC in 'with battery life'
  • DVCC as per manual (I will gladly give access to VRM if needed)
  • NRS097 country code selected
  • Victron cables, no crimped cables

What I have done so far:

  • All items display 100% correct on Cerbo (MultiPlus, MTTP and Battery)
  • Contacted 2 Victron distributors, neither can help me (one who I bought the inverter from, and the other the battery);
  • We had the latest firmware on inverter, but distributor recommended to roll back to 481 (last stable version) to test, not difference;
  • Check all AC cables one by one;
  • System work 100% when AC is disconnected;
  • If I discharge batteries, and chage ESS to 'keep batteries charged' it works 100% to charge from grid;
  • Tried it both with and without 'battery life';
  • I checked all RJ45 cables with a tester, even tried a new cable between inverter and Cerbo;
  • exchanged the Cerbo;
  • I have bought another MPII, but distributor told me I would waste my time, try the community first;

I understand the normally way for anyone to help me is to check basics, and I know I might have not given all info one might need to check all this. I will gladly comply, pictures, just ask. However, have spend 2 days checking everything over and over. I am convinced it is something else I might have missed. I hope another installer of someone from Victron has come across this, as both my distributors who is massive in RSA, is stumped.

Multiplus-IIcerbo gxESSess grid setpoint not reached
screenshot-2022-01-10-131029.png (53.9 KiB)
20220106-mpii-48-5000-70-2623481.zip (2.0 KiB)
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

More images:

screenshot-2022-01-10-150550.png

screenshot-2022-01-10-150503.png

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screenshot-2022-01-10-150550.png (61.2 KiB)
screenshot-2022-01-10-150503.png (66.3 KiB)
offgridsystems avatar image offgridsystems commented ·

Hi All

I am having the same problems with a recent ESS system. Mine has 2 @ 5kVA Multi 2's in parallel own a single phase and 2 @ 5kW SMA Sunny boys.

I see if there is PV being generated, the batteries will get charged from the PV, but the house will be powered by the grid. If I turn off the grid, the system works perfectly as an off grid system.

It seems the system cannot cope with the grid and PV connected all at the same time. If either is removed, all works as expected.

However, there is always a good amount of power being pulled off the grid during daylight hours every day. The customer has complained that last week 50kWh was drawn from the grid. The system is defeating the whole idea of having an ESS.

More background. .. Metering is through the 2 @ Multi's and the whole home is powered via the Multi outputs as has also been installed to provide backup in case of grid fail. Batteries are 2 @ BYD LVL's

See attached typical screen shot from the cerbo.

All firmwares are fully up to date.

Thanks all..

img-8621.jpg

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img-8621.jpg (997.3 KiB)
antoncpt avatar image antoncpt offgridsystems commented ·

I have the exact same issue with my new install. Its pulling power from the grid while there is an abundance of PV power available. I need to go and flip the utility (Eskom) breaker manually to stop it from pulling power from the grid. Also does it in the evenings, when it should be pulling power from the batteries, it like its using 50% Grid % 50 Battery all the time, maybe sometimes 30% grid and 70% battery.


Energy Meter ET112

SmartSolar MPPT RS 450/100 | FM v497

2x MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-48 | FM v487

Cerbo GX | FM v2.89

20x JA Solar 455W Mono PERC Half-Cell MBB

4x Dyness 4.8KW Batteries


ESS settings are:

Mode: Optimized (without BatteryLife)

Grid Metering: external

Inverter AC output in use: ENABLED

Multiphase regulation: Total of all phases

Minimum SOC (unless grid fails): 40%

Limited inverter power: DISABLED

Grid setpoint: 50W, was 200W

Grid feed-in: All disabled, feed-in limiting active: no

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shaneyake avatar image shaneyake offgridsystems commented ·
Can you post the ESS menu settings? So we can see, mode, meter, etc.
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Ingo avatar image Ingo commented ·
The strange thing is that in my setup, that is very similar to yours, my MPPT shows 'Ext Control' on the VRM portal. I think your issue might be an ESS setting and if ESS cannot control the MPPT then it's probably falling back to it's own internal behavior - just guessing here.
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Ingo commented ·
Haven't seen VRM show external control in some time.

Quite normal.

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Ingo avatar image Ingo nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Just for reference.

Edit: I just checked, VictronConnect also shows my MPPT state as External Control. It might be the starting point for @Schalk van der Merwe .

1641817493606.png


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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Ingo commented ·

Have you got an energy meter? Seems pretty normal for systems with meters (ie critical/AC loads) to not show the external control state on the dashboard while you can clearly see it under "advanced".

It's the same on other similar setups on my portal.

Easy to check via the widgets in advanced view.

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Ingo avatar image Ingo nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Good question. Yes, I do have an ET112 but am using the Multi Internal Grid meter rather. Perhaps the OP can share VictronConnect settings and ESS settings as I still feel the MPPT uses it's internal algorithm to charge the battery and then backs off when it hits 100% If controlled by the GX it will tell it to keep on producing power to power the AC loads.
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe Ingo commented ·
I had a look, thank you. However, none of my sites shows this anymore, but i do remember it from the past. Is it possible you are running and older firmware on your GX or older firmware on MPPT? I am not sure what causes this to still display, but i am pretty sure it is an older setting.
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
correction: i found 2, updated both MPPT and GX, both still showed 'ext control'. Difference they are small SmartSolar MPPTs, this is a VE.Can. Although connected with VE.Direct, it is the only difference i see.

However, all my other sites run fine, with or wothout the 'ext control' displaying.
If someone from Victron can maybe confirm this.
Thx Ingo

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Your description mentions one mppt, the screenshot shows 2.

Are they both the same?

Are they both connected vi VE.direct/CAN to the GX (ie not using smart networking)?

Have you tried measuring the voltages at each mppt?

If there is a difference between mppt readings and the system it can cause them to go to sleep and result in these symptoms.

Have you tried powering off individual MPPT's?

Config file looks fine, I take it DVCC is configured as per the manual and you can see the BMS being active on the GX?


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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Hi Nick
  • When i swapped the Cerbo, once must have been stuck, i deleted it now on VRM>devices;
  • only one MPPT, connected on VE.Direct
  • DVCC screenshot attached on a comment just above/below;
  • Yes, i can see the BMS, and all submenus are also 100% correct (if it was a data cable loss it might have been corrupted)
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

Ok makes sense. And the mppt state is "external control"?

Does the MPPT go to "sleep" ie producing no, or way less PV than is actually available at the time?

Have you got a VRM chart showing BMS/inverter voltage/current at the time?

What parameters is the BMS passing to the GX at the same time (VRM chart helpful)?

Would be interesting to compare the BMS charge voltage limit to what is being reported.


Have you been able to have anyone pull BMS logs from the battery, just to eliminate the obvious?

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Hi, yes, it is on ext control.

PV is on 0W only because it is using grid power and battery is full. As soon as I disconnect grid, PV picks up.

VE.Bus and Solar Charger Voltange and current below.screenshot-2022-01-10-154019.png

(You will notice it worked this morning, this is because the customer put AC input to inverter manually off until i resolve this)

Not sure how to answer the "what parameters is passed to GX" question, all parameters? hehe

screenshot-2022-01-10-154508.pngscreenshot-2022-01-10-154546.png

no, no BMS logs pulled, when i showed as 'online' on GX, i hoped all is 100%.
Will add this to list of 'last resort' problems, thanks!

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

There should be a parameters tab in the BMS (also available via VRM) which shows the charge voltage limit and discharge limits. like this one:

screenshot-2022-01-10-at-155527.png

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Ah, ok thanks. pls see below:

screenshot-2022-01-10-160019.png

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screenshot-2022-01-10-160019.png (30.3 KiB)
nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Grid is a symptom, it's not the problem.

"keep batteries charged" runs higher than the optimised modes, which would explain why it works.

Let's see the charge/discharge limits chart.

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Ingo avatar image Ingo nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
@nickdb Just as a side note. The External vs Multi Grid meter does control the showing of 'Ext Control' on VRM. I changed my setup to the OP's and the solar still feeds the load as expected. Changing the Grid meter shouldn't make any difference. @Schalk van der Merwe also post some info from VictronConnect for the MPPT setup.
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe Ingo commented ·

yes, that is 100% correct. if you change from external to multi's meter, you will not be able to also supply the 'AC loads' (the green block will disappear) with solar power.


Just to be clear, the 'Ext Control' you see on VRM next to MPPT has got NOTHING to do with a meter, as soon as you plug a MPPT in on a GX with a battery on VE.Can, this happen automatically. This will happen with or without a inverter even. The 'ext control' refers to the battery on VE.Can controlling the MPPT. Try unplugging the VE. Direct and see how many error messages you get... hehehe

PS: you might have to enable DVCC first, not 100% sure if it happens before or after this is enabled. I commission GX from battery first, then inverter, and by then MPPT is mostly configured.

Again, so grateful for the assistance!!!

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Ingo avatar image Ingo Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
You are correct BUT the display on VRM is affected by the Grid Meter selection - strange but true. With or Without VRM displaying Ext Control, the MPPT is controlled by the Freedomwon battery as you rightly said.
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Sorry, i really appreciate the help, but i gave you the exact chart you used in the example (Advaned > Widgets > Battery Monitor > BMS Charge and discharge Limits).

Kindly advise the one you are looking for, or your cell/email, and I will assist with access.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
We noticed twice that the system just started to work (taking power from DC instead of grid), so first time this happened i was on site and I hoped it would be the UTP cable between inverter and Cerbo. I put in a new cable (no change), tested the old one on a cable tester and it tested fine.

Again this morning it worked for a bit, and then stopped (meaning I uses grid power to supply loads, despite a full battery and plenty of solar). I installed new cables (inverter/cerbo and battery/cerbo), no change. Tested old cables and new cables, all tested 100%.

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Sounds like an issue on the MPPT side to me, either setup or install.

Please confirm how they are both connected to the Cerbo, that they both report as slaved and check your voltages at the MPPTs.

You want to be sure there is no voltage loss along the way - so cabling is important.


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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

thank you for feedback, but only one MPPT on VE.Direct, data showing on VRM and Cerbo.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
I thought about this, and lets say it is am MPPT fault, or if I remove it completely, if the battery is in this state on ESS, it should discharge, right?
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

If you disable the MPPT, under optimised modes, it should discharge the batteries

You can also try disabling the meter, and temporarily set the Multi as the meter.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Hi Nick, where is 'optimized modes' please?

I have tried disabling the meter, both by unplugging it, restarting the GX or by simply changing in on ESS, neither worked. Thx for idea.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Another update:

(a distributor came out to confirm installation is sound, but we where unable to resolve issue)

  • So we exchanged all major components (Inverter, MPPT and Cerbo);
  • We exchanged all cables, on MPPT we also tried the VE.Can cable;
  • Freedom Won logged in and confirmed battery is 100%;
  • Something that was strange is we removed the terminator on the BMS.Can on Cerbo side and for about 30 mins the system worked as it should, then it stopped and went back to prioritize the AC;
  • I installed a Pylontech battery, no change;
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11 Answers
Schalk van der Merwe avatar image
Schalk van der Merwe answered ·

Feedback from Victron was 'fluctuating grid frequency'. The grid frequency varied with something like 0.25Hz, and this caused the system to behave irregular. This was due to industries close by. The system works 100% on weekends.

Problem was local municipality says it is well within acceptable parameters, so nothing will be done.
Maybe a frequency filter?? no experience with that....
I resolved it by installing a contactor and using the Gen/Start/Stop function on Relay1 of the Cerbo, to remove the system from the grid above 40% battery SoC and reconnecting on 35%.

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shaneyake avatar image shaneyake commented ·

Just note for others who may want to do this, You can wire Cerbo Relay to AUX1 of the inverter and use General Flag assistant to island the system. You don't need an external contactor.
https://shaneyake.blogspot.com/2022/09/victron-disconnect-inverter-from-grid.html

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Rob Fijn avatar image
Rob Fijn answered ·

Just here something else to throw in , in the menu of the Grid Meter you can set the role of this meter. Grid Meter>Setup>Role

Could this be wrong?

Rob

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

Hi, yes that is the default setting for a meter.

screenshot-2022-01-11-071602.png

and

screenshot-2022-01-11-072612.png

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ejrossouw avatar image
ejrossouw answered ·

What is your DC coupled PV feed-in set to?

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

Hi, currently disabled DC PV export, but even if we change it to try and force it to export, it makes no difference. It does not export or use DC to power the loads.

This initially indicted that maybe the battery is not present, or that the inverter/GX does not see it, but as soon as I disconnect AC supply, it works fine, powering loads from DC, PV start to generate. We also tried to replace data cables at this stage. No difference.

Is there maybe another indication you can see that i miss?

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Ingo avatar image Ingo Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Please show a screen print of VictronConnect when connected to the MPPT. One when battery is still charging and one once it reaches 100% and stops. Also, have you replaced the VE.Direct cable yet?
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe Ingo commented ·
Hi @Ingo

If I put the AC Input off, it powers the loads from the batery and PV picks up perfectly. If I put the PV of and force a discharge to say 90% and reconnect the PV, production picks up and produces full power. While disconnected from AC it produces enough to fill battery and once battery is fully charged just enough for the loads, exactly as it should when off-grid.

As soon as I reconnect AC input, the loads immediately gets powered from AC and PV is only used to charge the battery and then it stops. This happens regardless of battery % (I tested this a few times, we tested this to see if DC voltage has an influence, which it did not have)

Please elaborate what you want to see on the screenshots.

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Ingo avatar image Ingo Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

@Schalk van der Merwe I want to check these from VictronConnect. Below is mine when battery is at around 30% as the day starts.


1641965254196.png


and from Settings -> Battery (with Expert Mode Enabled)

1641965334750.png


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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe Ingo commented ·
its the same
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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
@Schalk van der Merwe I'd probably experiment disabling/enabling the grid code and even trying e.g. different one to test. Also make sure the "monitor for grid failure" is enabled. Is the battery monitor set to the battery? The ESS mode is optimized without battery life? For me it looks like the system is acting like a UPS only.
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ ejrossouw commented ·
monitor for grid failure is purely alerting, so you get a dedicated alarm. It makes no difference to system operation.
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe ejrossouw commented ·
Hi @ejrossouw

Thanks for your suggestions, feedback:

  • I tried Other and South African grid codes, no difference
  • I enabled "Monitor for Grid failure", no difference. My understanding is this only creates an alarm on the GX that needs to be reset when the grid fails, not other purpose. I have never enabled this. Please correct me if i am wrong;
  • Battery monitor did not make a difference on Auto, VE.Bus or CAN-bus. Although it should never be there, it has to be on Auto, but for purpose of testing, I tried all 3;
  • ESS with and without battery life tried, no difference;

Exactly, it is acting like UPS, but worse, it does not use solar in daytime, it is using AC as priority instead of DC.

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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

Have you tried removing the ess assistant and re-installing? Finally, just going back to basics, is the polarity on the ACIN correct? Confirmed with a multimeter?

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe ejrossouw commented ·
Hi, sorry, only saw this now. Going thru comments in case i missed any.

Yes, firmware with assistants loaded on 465, 481 and 490. On two different inverters.

ACIN was double checked thx, but also Grid Code would have returned an error 8/11 if it was not.

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Ingo avatar image Ingo Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
@Schalk van der Merwe Just for kicks, have you tried to use a different MPPT?
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe Ingo commented ·
I guess this is the next logical thing to try...
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Ingo avatar image Ingo Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Before you try another MPPT, just toggle both DVCC Shared Current Sense On|Off and test and also enable Limit Charge Current On|Off and put a high enough value when On. Test both individually and together.
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Having spent some time looking at the setup, it all seems fine, just the multi refuses to invert with ESS. At no point is the state in passthrough, but the DC bus voltage never gets drawn down by load.

Forcing grid feed-in makes no difference.

Even changing modes to "keep batteries charged" didn't force the system to invert.

All the components are communicating and seem fine, there's no comms cable issues.

I have suggested disabling LOM detection as a test, as well as checking the BMS logs.

Could the Lynx distributor be adding any variables here?



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Ingo avatar image Ingo nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

I don't think the Lynx will add anything untoward, the option to disable LOM detection as a test is a good one to try.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

I seriously doubt it, but one of the tests I will be doing today will be to connect the battery strait to inverter.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

I thought I'll add this, if anyone wants to see the ESS state.

screenshot-2022-01-12-064026.png


In above screenshot ESS is in 'without battery life' (for testing purposes, as the Active SoC sometimes mess with you), Min SoC 40%, 10W grid setpoint, no DC feedback.

screenshot-2022-01-12-063532.png

With all the adjustments if I now put I on 'with battery life', Active SoC is on 75%, so above screenshot is 'with battery life' enabled. It is doing what it is supposed to as the active SoC is messed up right now. I am attaching this to see the state of ESS.

I will put in on 'without battery life' for remainder of the test.

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screenshot-2022-01-12-064026.png (47.8 KiB)
screenshot-2022-01-12-063532.png (37.1 KiB)
Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Update:

  • changed LOM setting in VE.Config, no change;
  • loaded a VE.Config file from a site with similar specs, no change;
  • connected the Battery strait on inverter to bypass the Lynx, no change *
  • exchanged inverters, no change;

*Maybe someone can confirm this to me please: If I use ESS on a UPS system (no PV) and change setting from 'keep batteries charged' to 'optimized with/without battery life', will it discharge? When I connected it like this it would not use DC for the loads, and I also tried it at my own house (no PV installed yet), and my system would not prioritize DC either. A friend told me ESS will not prioritize DC unless PV is detected. Can anyone confirm please. I was hoping it would, I know there is countries where you can buy power for different tariffs, and would hope we can use a Victron to buy power at low rates, and sell it back in peak times, without solar.

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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

I use my system optimized without battery and a charging schedule like like over two years now. Very much runs our house from the LG RESU charged at off-peak rates. I have two experimental panels and an MPPT but the solar only features in summer a bit. C0F1E77A-FB68-489D-8331-EAE488F18F7D.jpeg

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c0f1e77a-fb68-489d-8331-eae488f18f7d.jpeg (469.0 KiB)
Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe ejrossouw commented ·
PV is present in your scenario.
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Ingo avatar image Ingo Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

I stand to be corrected but I think it will use the DC until MinSOC% is reached. It will then use Grid. If SOC% drops further to 5% below MinSOC% it will charge from grid back to MinSOC%

*Edit: Assuming you have Optimise with/without BatteryLife selected otherwise it will stay at 100% all day long from Grid.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe Ingo commented ·
yes, we are aware of this, thx.
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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
It will discharge, in the same way it would do at night when there is zero PV and the mppt is "asleep".

You can use schedules under ESS to control when you go to grid and when the system will discharge.

Keep batteries charged, prohibits any battery discharge unless grid fails.

We have a number of schedule based systems - mainly to cater for lower battery capacities and to get some benfit from a system mainly designed as backup power.

You seem to have exhausted avenues, pretty much leaves the BMS. Any joy with the manufacturer checking logs, reflashing etc?

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
FW cleared the battery, thx for suggestion.


My above question was if ESS would discharge without PV. Looks like no-one understood me, sorry if I was unclear. I wanted to know if ESS would discharge WITHOUT PV, all responses was WITH PV.
Response from 2 distributors was that ESS would not discharge in 'with or without battery life' state if no PV is detected (Victron MPPT or PV inverter).

What I have noticed, if you put a UPS system in this mode, it does not use GRID to recharge (battery SoC does fall over a few days, power use is minimal, but I guess the power used is in the battery BMS).
Getting a bit off topic, this test was to minimize components and see if I can temporarily remove MPPT and test inverter/battery only, without Lynx. It seems it is not possible to discharge in ESS without PV present in some form.

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ejrossouw avatar image
ejrossouw answered ·

@Schalk van der Merwe Complete wildcard this one, but it appears to be associated with ESS problems.

2021-12 MPII-ESII-QUAII Current Sense Socket Issue - rev3.pdf


2021-12-mpii-esii-quaii-current-sense-socket-issue.pdf (427.8 KiB)
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Don't use the current sensor for residential solar (it might have a better application elsewhere that i am not aware of), it REPLACES the input current sensor already on the Victron and gives your an inaccurate idea of what is ESSENTIAL LOADS (on AC Output, Critical Loads as per VRM) and NON-ESSENTIAL LOADS (grid loads, or AC Loads as per VRM).


I guess it can be argued it does not matter, but for some it does. I want to see AC loads and Critical loads separately.
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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
The point is that it was determined that the external CT connector may actually occasionally be stuck and cause problems. A complete wildcard as I said, but you clearly seem to have run out of options otherwise and I do see a potential link with your ESS issue if you look at the sysmptoms and moreso have not used or touched the connector ;)
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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe ejrossouw commented ·
no CT on this system.
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ejrossouw avatar image ejrossouw Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

Do I need to translate into Afrikaans maybe?

" This affects the common use case: systems where such external current sensor is not installed."

Exceptionally the CT clamp socket connector internally gets stuck during manufacturing, which amongst things may result "In an ESS system the unit will behave unpredictable,"

Other than suggesting uninstalling and re-installing the ESS assistant that maybe corrupted, this is one for your dealer then.

Let us know if you find a fix.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe ejrossouw commented ·

If you want to be rude please pass, I do not have time for this.

First comment, was you think it is a ESS comment, we already know that. If you have a specific quote within a document, kindly refer to it, don't expect everyone need to study the entire document just because you attached it. At the time I did not see the relevance so I simply scanned it.

Second you said external CTs sometime get stuck ("The point is that it was determined that the external CT connector may actually occasionally be stuck and cause problems "), we have an ET112, not a external CT, so I did not see your point at the time. I guess you meant the internal CT/meter.

No-where until last comment did you recommend to try exchanging the internal meter with an external meter. That is not a bad idea.

Ok, to answer your question (i hope): both input and output meters (internal on the MPII) vary as input power and output power varies. If I understand you correctly, this indicated they are not 'stuck'. I can confirm this from VRM view, Remote Console and advanced view in VRM.

screenshot-2022-01-17-111453.png

Since this happened with 2 separate inverters, it is rather unlikely but not dismissible.

This is currently escalated to Victron HO, will definitely try this if they think it is possible that two inverters has the same flaw.

Then ESS has been updated numerous times, on 2 inverters and on firmware 465, 481 and 490. Firmware updates happened both the easy way (Victron Connect) and the harder way (VEFlash).

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Ingo avatar image
Ingo answered ·

Have you tested my suggestions from 5 days ago?

1642495667833.png

I also tried to see what version firmware you are running on both the Cerbo and the MPPT but couldn't find it. Can you please post those also.


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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Hi, it is currently with Victron, will advise the outcome.
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spudgun avatar image spudgun Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
Hi. Did you manage to resolve this issue? Having a very similar problem with a parallel system of 2 x 48/3000 Multiplus II but using the external current transformer, the 20m version.


When AC in is turned off the system works fine. When AC in is turned on then the system draws power from the grid even though there is battery and PV available and the grid setpoint is set to 10W. It still draws up to 200W from the grid. Tried changing all the settings too but the problem persists.

Would be good to know if you resolved your issue please and what you did?

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alexjorjik avatar image alexjorjik Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

Hi @Schalk van der Merwe, do you have any outcome for this issue ? Because I have a similar one and I am searching for a solution. Thanks !

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ponzoa avatar image
ponzoa answered ·

I've just read this post and have been thinking of what it may be that is being overlooked. Grid set point, Keep batteries charged, etc but you seemed to have tried most things I would have.


The only thing that occurs to me is to try the following with your fingers crossed while waiting from feedback from VE HO;

Disconnect alll AC loads, MPPT's, shunts, everything but the inverter and the batteries

Restore to factory defaults

Update firmware

Reconfigure everything from scratch as ESS

Configure the GX again

Connect the GX to the Multi and test with a multimeter. You should have power on AC1 out and virtually nothing on AC In.

Connect MPPT(s)

Test again

Connect/power up AC Out 1

Test correct function and grid lost alarm active

Connect AC In


Good luck, I can't think of anything else to test.

As a side note, we sometimes configure ESS set ups in our office and they seem to work without PV as we don't set this part up until on site.

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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
did the installation twice, even with different equipment, same result.
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alexjorjik avatar image
alexjorjik answered ·

Hello folks,

My set-up: Victron Multiplus II GX 48/5000VA + Victron MPPT connected via VE Direct to GX + 1 x Pylontech US3000C connected via CAN to GX.

I've had the similar issue, ESS assistant set to "Optimized w/o battery life" + Min SOC set to 30%. Multiplus was feeding randomly the critical loads from the grid randomly, in the same time having enough power from the PV system or battery; also the charger was activated to fill the battery even if it was at 90% for example.

What I've done to eliminate this behavior so far (after deleting and adding the ESS assistant for several times) was to deactivate all scheduled charging's from ESS (this might work wrong with Pylontech batteries as I've read in another post) and the most important to set the "Grid Setpoint" to 0 (or you can also try to set at 10W).image-152.pngimage-153.png

Now the Grid value is fluctuating showing +/- some volts but are random and unrealistic values:

image-155.png

One last remark: Grid feed-in is deactivated in my case.

Please try this and provide a feedback if is working in your case or not; I've also desperately search for a solution spending day and nights to find something and stop the system to take energy from the grid instead of battery/PV system.

Also a big "unknown" for me is still who it is the "External control" which manages the multiplus ? The ESS (GX) or battery or who ?

Best regards,

Jorj



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Schalk van der Merwe avatar image Schalk van der Merwe commented ·
@AlexJorjik , are you referring to the "2W" as using power from the grid? and please elaborate as to you mean with 'unrealistic'.

If you have a problem it is best practice to start your own post and refer to other posts, not to 'hijack' a post. From what is see here your system is working 100%, only problem is the users' expectation. Apologies for being blunt, no offence intended, but these are common topics installers have to address with new customers. My advise to you would be to contact an installer/distributor and discuss these issues, probably the place you bought the products from.

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alexjorjik avatar image alexjorjik Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

Hi @Schalk van der Merwe ,

I've mentioned that value that is unrealistic because it is a measurement tolerance/error and is showing +2v / -5v...but those values are not real (Multipus is not drawing/injecting any power in/from grid). This is well known and is not an issue, just a remark.

In my comment above, I've offered you a possible solution to your problem, because I've had a simillar one. It was misunderstood by you...it is not a new issue opened in your topic. I used the "hello folks" say of salute because there are 60+ users which are watching this issue and maybe are also interested to find a solution to a simillar problem.

Apologies from my side if this is not the solution for your problem or if I've wrongly understood it.

Best regards, Jorj

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ponzoa avatar image
ponzoa answered ·

I believe the EXTERNAL CONTROL is the battery BMS and relates to battery charging and usage rules.

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alexjorjik avatar image alexjorjik commented ·
Hi @ponzoa ,

I will say that this is partially correct. Somethimes the BSM is behind ext control, but most of the time is ESS / ESS Assistant which mannages the whole system. But is not explicitly said who exactly controls in every moment the inverter/charger (is just saying Ext Control but not dpecific whom).

Thanks for your feedback, but this is an Victron implementation feature...so let's not hijack this topic with other unusefull details.

Best regards, Jorj

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ponzoa avatar image ponzoa alexjorjik commented ·
BMS is external control and ESS applies those rules. But relating to the questions in this post relating to External control and to answer those questions, it is the BMS controlling the rules for DC/battery charging and discharging for the system.
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neville avatar image
neville answered ·

hello Schalk

i would like to know if your problem was ever resolved?.., as i have the exact same issue , i have eventually moved the battery monitor over to the Quattro as a temp solution

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Gavin Kennedy avatar image
Gavin Kennedy answered ·

I am sadly *still* struggling with a very similar problem with no assistance forthcoming from Victron.

Even if my battery is 100% and the PVs are pouring our power, the moment there's any draw on the AC Loads, between 1/3 and 1/2 of that comes from gid.

We've replaced the GX - no luck.
Changing Grid Metering from "external" to "Inverter/Charger" makes the problem worse.

I've read through so many suggestions here but keep coming away not finding anyone who has resolved this.

Anyone have any fresh insights into root cause?

Many thanks

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Richard Norman avatar image
Richard Norman answered ·

I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread but the only other behaviour I see like this where DC system isn't used and it passes through power from the grid to the loads is with scheduled charge, in older systems before they introduced the use battery or pv above minimum soc then All loads during a scheduled charging window would be consumed from grid.

I only mention this as of grid fails then the scheduled charge is over ruled and the system would then use the DC system. It was also mentioned in one post about a system working on the weekend but not midweek more likely to be a schedule or time based system change.

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