question

dsparshott avatar image
dsparshott asked

Washing Machine runs erratically when powered from Genset

I have just installed a new generator (GearGB 6.5kw LPG off-grid with 2 wire relay). When using this to charge my batteries (Pylontech on a MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-48) I like to run some appliances as to utilise the genset output. However, the washing machine really struggles with this, it is very erratic as if there is too much modulation with the AC power. There is also occasionally some pulsing in the light bulbs.


My question is, Why is this happening and how can I mitigate it? Are there any settings on the Multiplus or genset that can smooth the power output?


I previously was running a 9kw Lister diesel genset without any such issues.


Thanks.

Multiplus-IIGenerator
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

5 Answers
JohnC avatar image
JohnC answered ·

Hi @dsparshott

There are indeed a few things you could try. Some discussion here.. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/multiplus_faq These are mainly for total rejection, but still relevant to your issues.

Depends on what settings you have already, but Dynamic Current Limiter, and the UPS thingy would be good starting points to test. The Multi doesn't profess to 'modulation' of the source, except for the WeakAC setting, which will change the power factor and limit the genset input somewhat.

Most gensets are different in their needs, so you may need to test a few things. And unfortunately what works one day may not the next, such are gensets. So be patient and thorough with your observations. Good luck..

3 comments
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

dsparshott avatar image dsparshott commented ·
Thanks for this, I will certainly look at these setting - however, I can't actually find any of these settings within the GX device remote console. Is there a way for me to access them? I'm using the VRM portal remote console and have a Colour Control GX attached to the system. I cannot install the Victron Connect app and none of the other software is now available for me to use.
0 Likes 0 ·
JohnC avatar image JohnC ♦ dsparshott commented ·

@dsparshott

These settings are largely in the Multi. With access to VRM, under Device List you'll find RemoteVEConfigure.. https://www.victronenergy.com/live/vrm_portal:remote-veconfigure

For completeness.. https://docs.victronenergy.com/veconfigure.html#warning

A Win lappy is great for this. Not sure what your issue is with the software, but you'll need something for it to work on. (I can't help if a phone, never tried)

0 Likes 0 ·
Show more comments
dsparshott avatar image
dsparshott answered ·

To add some more information - when the generator is running the AC frequency of AC Out 1 (to the home) modulates between 50 Hz and 53.48 Hz. From this I would assume that it is this change in frequency that is preventing the motor in the washing machine from functioning.

1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

joanspark avatar image joanspark commented ·

modern waching machines (>10 years old? wow I'm getting old) are inverter types with BDC motors, they rectify the electricity that goes into them and recreate 3-phase for driving the motor that runs the drum (direct drive, multipole rotors, I got one in the shed, marvels of technology). Not sure about the pump(s) or the valves though..

Maybe the power factor correction electronics causes a problem with the power source, as they do some active stuff about WHEN they draw power from the AC from microsecond to microsecond. Maybe you got some sort off feedback-loop going on there where the AC source is actively trying to supply the load, while the load is actively trying to not exceed some electricity norms?
A regulator race of sorts.. results usually in oscillations.


0 Likes 0 ·
vward avatar image
vward answered ·

We're having loads of generator issues, off grid. At one point the Washing machine was switching off mid cycle, or not wanting to switch on if the generator was on. We've just tried - Power Assist - On. Dynamic Current Limiting - On, Weak AC - On, UPS - off. We were finally able to do laundry last night plus the lights weren't flickering all of the time. Our generator is a Honda, converted to LPG. (and the AC frequency does fluctuate, but I think it is the Weak AC setting that makes that palatable for the washing machine)

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

michelg avatar image
michelg answered ·

Hi, could you try to use it for cold wash ? I mean no heating at all. Usually the heaters are very powerful 3kW or more, and it could be the reason of the issue.

Michel

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

snoobler avatar image
snoobler answered ·

When the generator is running, the inverters are only passing through the incoming AC and using surplus current to charge the batteries. This is almost certainly NOT an inverter issue. This is almost certainly a generator issue.


The issue is with your generator's unstable output. Your washing machine likely uses electronics that need a very consistent frequency.


It's likely that no setting in the MP can fix this. It can't "clean up" the power coming in from the generator. The settings discussed just increase the MP's tolerance for crap incoming AC.


You need to pursue steps to stabilize the generator output frequency. In many cases, generators just can't do any better, and the use of sensitive devices should be avoided.


We have a similar issue with an electric blanket of all things. Our generator runs 58-62Hz (North America), and the electric blanket controllers' LEDs simply flash and refuse to function at all. Once the generator is turned off, and the Quattro is delivering it's very consistent 60Hz, the electric blanket performs flawlessly after unplugged and plugged back in. I suspect it's the 10 hour timer feature that relies on a steady frequency for timekeeping. Since it's unstable, it refused to operate.


I have tried all settings and landed on:

Dynamic current limiter enabled

No wide input

No UPS

No Weak AC input

I see no fluctuation in lights, and the only device that doesn't work on generator is the electric blanket.


2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.