question

thomasw-1 avatar image
thomasw-1 asked

Fronius Zero-feed-in option / Grid feed-in deactivation not working

Hi All,

I am wondering that ESS feature does not properly respect the deactivated "Grid feed-in" option.
In following screenshots you can see that the grid power flow deviates roughly between -2.000W and +2.000W, although it is not expected to feed-in anything.
Since I am not allowed to feed into the grid, I am forced to move away from ESS to actually deprecated HUB-2 application.

I would highly appreciate, if Victron could consider

  • a HUB-2 equivalent feature in ESS solution again and
  • assure that relevant energy is used mainly from battery and not from grid


Examples

  • grid power changing from +1.447W to -1.756W
    feed-01.jpgfeed-02.jpg


  • grid power changing from +2.006W to -1.709W
    feed-03.jpgfeed-04.jpg


Configurations

Both configuration options aren't successful.

config-1.jpg

config-2.jpg

My environment

  • 3xMultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50 in 3-phase (firmware 477) with a
    • ESS zero feed-in configuration
    • Multiphase regulation on single phase
    • Grid setpoint defined at 80W
  • Fronius Symo 6.0-3-M (firmware 3.16.7-1) – connected to AC-OUT1 (critical loads) – no additional smart meter - sunspec activated
  • Victron MPPT VE.can 250/100 rev2 (firmware 3.02)
  • PV modules all with absolutely identical direction and no shadowing
    11kWp in total: 6kWp on Fronius and 5kWp on MPPT
  • BYD LV 15.4 (allowed charging and discharging current during the test procedure 243A) - BMS connected via CAN-bus (firmware 1.16)
  • VenusGX (firmware 2.60) - currently 2.62-beta5
  • Any component with latest firmware as of today

topology.jpg

MPPT ControllersESSFronius
feed-01.jpg (345.5 KiB)
feed-03.jpg (348.2 KiB)
feed-04.jpg (344.0 KiB)
feed-02.jpg (344.8 KiB)
config-1.jpg (218.7 KiB)
config-2.jpg (249.8 KiB)
topology.jpg (109.1 KiB)
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4 Answers
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

Hi @ThomasW.,

The "Feed-in limiting active = No" in your Grid feed in menu.

From this manual here - ESS - 4.3.11. Zero feed-in (Fronius PV inverters only);

this indicates - "firmware requirement; the Data export; or the Sunspec Model type settings are incorrect."

Can you please post screen shots of the following configuration screens of your Fronius Inverter from your system?

modbus-2.jpg

firmware.jpg

dno.jpg


modbus-2.jpg (421.4 KiB)
firmware.jpg (286.7 KiB)
dno.jpg (559.5 KiB)
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thomasw-1 avatar image
thomasw-1 answered ·

As indicated in my previous comment I like to share my additional findings on the zero-feed-in issue.

Finding 1
The 3-phase fronius symo produces nearly same energy level on all 3-phase at the same time. This leads to the circumstance that on that phase, where energy is consumed, the energy production nearly levels out.
On the remaininig phases there is energy overflow, which is then reverted into grid (please also refer to findings 3 and4).
Following table exemplifies the behaviour theoretically.
1608248652412.png

Update 25.12.2020
Yesterday we had after 2 weeks clouds, fog and rain a short sunshine.
Interestingly I observed a quite identical pattern that I exemplified theoretically before.

gx.jpg

Update 26.12.2020
Under certain conditions engery is retrieved from battery in order to cover gap that cannot provided by PV. So far, so good. In case there is an unbalanced load on different phases, battery power is used to compensate the loaded phases. That phase with idle consumption however feeds power in grid.

1608997936578.png


Finding 2
During a normal day the MultiPlus environment feeds in curently min 5% of total produced solar energy (extracted from solar menu in VRM), although zero-feed-in is configured.

1608248824554.png

Update 25.12.2020: Example with higher feed-in of 11% for last day and 7% week avg
1608934313554.png

Hw"ku7-3Zjs

Finding 3
Overflow energy is on relevant phases is not directed into battery, although SOC was <60% and charge limit was of 243A at that moment. I validated by charging batteries via grid: batteries at that stage accept min 190A charging current, so nearly full MultiPlus-II capacity of 3x70A=210A.
So there can be no argument that batteries accept not more power at that moment.

Finding 4
Although also "Multiphase regulation" is set to "Indivdual phase" energy is not redirectey from the MultiPlus with energy overflow via DC to another one. I even observed scenarios, where energy was consumed from battery to cover the requirement on one phase, whereas power was reverted into grid on other phases in parallel.
Interesting observations:

  • In certain cases power on fronius is also throttled instead of using it on other phases!
  • In case system is taken off-grid, the power reversion via DC works between single phases!

I don't care about the efficiency loss like that feature is described in manual. I prefer that that feature would work ;-(

Update 25.12.2020

This issue seems to impact other users

Finding 5
As more frequent the energy consumption changes and as higher the different peaks get, as heavier the feed-in exceeds.
In the yellow-marked area of the diagram below there was a quite low power consumption with low peaks. During that time also energy was also fed in, but much less. After the yellow area cooking was started with essentiell load difference between single phases and therefore much more energy flew into grid.
Note: The energy level in this diagram is currently quite low, since weather condition in winter was not ideal.1608249275396.png


Finding 6
When I deactivate fronius and run MPPT only , there is nearly no feed-in also during peak changes.

Important Note
The fronius feed-in is not an isolated issue. There is a tremendous parallel problem with power throttling as well. So there is a gliding path, when energy is fed in and when power is throttled in case energy is actually required e.g. to load the battery (see here).


1608249275396.png (48.1 KiB)
1608248652412.png (4.6 KiB)
1608248824554.png (4.8 KiB)
gx.jpg (75.9 KiB)
1608934313554.png (16.1 KiB)
1608997936578.png (69.5 KiB)
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bulraydin avatar image
bulraydin answered ·

Hi @ThomasW.,

we had the same problem in the beginnig, the problem disappeared after making sure that fronius is set up correctly. Just check the manual 4.3.11. WhatsApp Image 2020-12-04 at 14.01.22.jpeg


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mihaimicu avatar image
mihaimicu answered ·

Just one questions. I had many issues until I managed to make my system working. Is modbus TCP enabled from services inside gx?screenshot-20201227-213217-samsung-internet.jpg


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