question

theo-pretorius avatar image
theo-pretorius asked

Using two different phases for AC-1-in and AC-2-in

I have the following setup:

1 Quattro 48 | 10000 | 140 – 100|100 – 230V

2 MPPT 250 | 100’s

CCGX running ESS

Solar panels and Lithium Batteries

My house has 3-phase power supply but the Victron system (installed on the one phase) is used to power almost all of the regularly used loads. So the other two phases are not frequently used much to power loads.

Our municipal power is unstable in the sense that the voltage fluctuates a lot, continuously cycling between ~200V and up to ~270V very regularly (often more than 10 times a day and could stay high, beyond 255V for an hour). I have found that mostly, when the phase I use on the Victron, has a high voltage, the other phases are within normal range (say 220-245V).

So I use the Victron to shut out the municipal power when it reaches 250V in order to protect my equipment. But then, it then also shuts off AC-2-out and my pool pump and cellar aircon amongst other non-essential loads shut down for the duration that the municipal power voltage is high, until it returns to 245V upon which the Victron takes in municipal power again.

I would like these loads on AC-2-out to run more regularly (when they are supposed to run) and not keep switching on and off all the time through the day. So, I am thinking of connecting one of the other phases (from the 3-phase supply) to the AC-2-in. This is in the hope that the Quattro will immediately transfer to AC-2-in when AC-1-in reaches the “too high” voltage and gets shut out. So all the loads can continue running undisturbed while AC-1-in is high and once it comes into normal range (currently set at 245V, but I will probably revise it downwards) the Quattro will switch back to AC-1-in.

Is this how the Quattro will deal with such a setup? I.e. will it switch immediately to AC-2-in, or will it not do so as there is still voltage (albeit too high) on the terminals of AC-1-in? Or is there a significant time delay before after having switched out AC-1-in, before switching over to AC-2-in?

Is there a better alternative to consider, given my objective?

Thanks in advance,

Theo

system design
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6 Answers
Matthias Lange - DE avatar image
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

I think is should work to connect 2 phases the device (not 100% sure!), but you will have a delay of around 30sec-1min before AC IN 2 is passed trough.and vise versa.

But if this problems are only at L1 why you don't change the wiring that the Ouattro is always on L2 or L3?

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theo-pretorius avatar image
theo-pretorius answered ·

Hi Matthias,

Thank you for your response. It’s a pity though, that it would take some time for the switchover to occur, but still definitely better than the current situation.

Regarding your question, no, all three phases go through these cycles of high and low voltages, but fortunately they‘re such that at least one of them would be in ‘normal’ range when my main supply is too high. This does mean that there would still be some times when my ’selected back-up phase‘, to be connected to AC-2-in, is also high when the other one is high, but in the long run it would still be an improvement relative to the current situation.

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Kevin Windrem avatar image
Kevin Windrem answered ·

I think that even if you switched to a different phase ahead of the inverter, it would still drop out until it resynchronizes to the new phase.

You might look for an automatic voltage stabilizer to monitor and adjust your incoming power line. These are typically autotransformers or transformers that switch in/out to boos/buck the line voltage. Searching the web for "automatic mains voltage regulator" may turn up something useful.

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theo-pretorius avatar image
theo-pretorius answered ·

Thank you Kevin. I have looked into AVRs about two years ago, when I first wanted to solve the voltage issue. At the time, the voltage fluctuations were even more crazy, ranging to about 305V. Most AVRs (or at least affordable ~15kVA ones), we’re only rated for up to about 260V and the one sales person told me it would switch out at higher voltages and other brands might just get damaged at the higher voltage end. So I ended up buying the Quattro and batteries to protect my equipment and also assist with load shedding here in South Africa, whilst I knew I’d add solar panels to the system in the not too distant future. Now I have done so, and want to maximize the use of those panels, while not wasting battery reserve on the non essential loads when municipal power is really not available. Hence my need to still make use of the AC-2-out functionality on the Quattro. I could otherwise just have put all the loads on AC-1-out, but it would risk depleting the batteries at times I’d like to conserve for essential use and would occasionally also result in overloading the Quattro (when council has high voltage and therefore power assist is not available).

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CristiMV avatar image
CristiMV answered ·

Hi I have the same issue: 3 phase grid, and Victron Multi installed on one phase. What I did, and it is cheaper than inserting an AVR or a stabilizer, it was to introduce a 3 phase selector in between. And based on the thresholds set on the selector, whenever the limits are met, selector activates a different phase, if that one is in the range. Due to the load I also had to use 3 contactors, otherwise the selector is able to handle only up to 16A.

https://www.fif.com.pl/en/automatic-phase-switches/140-automatic-phase-switch-pf-451.html

But this is only working if everytime you have at least one good phase...if all of them are jumping around, then you need an AVR...3 phase AVR or single phase

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theo-pretorius avatar image
theo-pretorius answered ·

Many thanks Cristian. This certainly looks like an option to seriously consider. I didn’t know that these selectors existed. I will definitely look into it. So far, whenever I have tested the voltage at my distribution board, there has always been at least one phase within the acceptable range. So, although it seems that the 0,5-0,8 seconds these things take to switch between phases, will cause my AC-2-out to drop out, it will at least be available again within about 2 minutes.

Thank you very much for the suggestion.

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