question

puddles avatar image
puddles asked

Filax 2 Problems and Faults

Hi there,

I have a new Phoenix 12/1200 inverter powering a 140 watt computer setup through a new Filax 2 transfer switch.

The inverter is connected to the priority source side of the Filax 2 and shore/mains power is connected to the alternative source side.


This works fine but I have noticed some odd quirks of this setup.


-Both power sources need to be connected and ON for the Filax to successfully begin feeeding power from the inverter.


-If the whole system is off (mains power disconnected, inverter off), after switching on the inverter, the filax will not allow current to flow from the inverter until the mains is on.


-Leaving the inverter on all the time fixes this issue, but has a 2 amp standby current draw.


-Reversing the setup works fine! Mains to Priority, Inverter to Alternative. Everything works perfectly.


So, i suspect the issue lies with the inverter/filax combintion. Perhaps the filax is too sensitive and detects a voltage/frequency drop of the inverter first startup and cuts out. The inverter runs 16mm2 power cables which are 1m long.

Oddly if i disconnect all loads from the inverter (monitors etc) the filax will successfully start without mains power connected, but after connecting loads carefully, it disconnects. Connecting mains power 'reassures' it that everything is ok and then all is fine and cut-in cut-out works perfectly.


The irony of this fault is after a full power down, you would need to steam back to port to connect to the mains, to reconnect your inverter.

Thoughts?





installation
1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

puddles avatar image puddles commented ·

No one using the filax 2 ?

0 Likes 0 ·
8 Answers
Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image
Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

Hello, The Filax switches between two sources, one of them has priority. Mostly the grid is priority and the inverter is backup. There is a voltage check on the incoming sources so look at the manual if the freq is set correct. If thats done as it is supposed to the Filax switches with only gris, only inverter or at both, giving the grid the priority. PS this community is not the Victron Energy first line support channel, the dealer is. So in case of this unit is failing to operate as it should, contact the dealer and they can test/swap and/or repair.

1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

puddles avatar image puddles commented ·

The original poster of this thread does not accept this as a useful answer. DO NOT BUY THE FILAX 2, YOU CAN DO BETTER.

2 Likes 2 ·
Matthias Lange - DE avatar image
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

The datasheet says:
"The priority source typically is the mains, a generator or shore power. The alternate source typically is an inverter."

What's the reason you did it the other way?
Have you more or less than 850W on the output and corresponding to that paced/removed the bridges at the "high power links"?

And why using the Filax + Phoenix instead of just a MultiPlus 12/1200?
The Multi keeps you backup battery fully charged and at the same time will pass-through the mains.
If the mains fails the Multi will switch automaticliy to inverting in less than 20ms.
As soon as the mains returns the Multi will switch back an starts recharging the battery.

1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Supra-Halbleiter avatar image Supra-Halbleiter commented ·

Interestingly this document https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Booklet-Off-Grid-System-EN.pdf shows a scenario with an inverter as alternate source, so it should work in principle, i would assume. 1690758952834.png

-1 Like -1 ·
1690758952834.png (96.0 KiB)
puddles avatar image
puddles answered ·

Hey, thanks for the reply,

Obviously it would be nice to fix this fault without spending a whole lot more money!

Are you able to confirm that this is common with Filax 2/Inverter connections? Is this a feature, not a fault?

Many thanks




1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

You have written you connected the inverter to priority source and the mains to alternate source and you have problems with this setup.
Then you have written if you switch priority and alternate source (which is the recommended setup in the datasheet) everything is fine.

So what is your problem? Is there any reason to not install it like it's recommended?

I don't say you have to buy a MultiPlus now, I only say that this would have been the better solution, in my opinion.

0 Likes 0 ·
puddles avatar image
puddles answered ·

Hi there,

My setup unusual but not totally nuts.

The inverter powers a critical 140 watt computer system. It is solar/battery powered and needs to be the priority source. This is not optional.

When the battery voltage drops below x the inverter wil shut off and the mains will take over until the batteries are full again. This works just fine.

What is odd:

-BOTH 230 volt sources need to ON for the Filax to feed power from the inverter (making the system totally useless after a full shutdown with mains down)

-The Filax cannot start a 140 watt computer on its own from the inverter and must use mains.

The obvious problem is the Filax/Inverter combination. I am keen to hear from anyone who actually owns a Filax 2 or can describe why it is so sensitive and keen to switch to the seconday source. Both sources of 230 volts are stable and are being produced at levels well below design limits, the inverter is cabable of 1200 watts and has 4KW of batteries.

I'm not really looking for system design pointers though all feedback is greatly appreciated.

Many thanks



1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

In my opinion you system design makes no sense at all.
If it is a critical computer system you want it to run as long as possible in case of a grid failure.
-> the computer is supplied by the grid as long as it is available. If the grid fails the Filax switches to the inverter to supply the computer from the (always fully charged) battery.

In you current setup the computer will crash if the battery is empty(no/not enough solar power) and if at the same time a grid failure occurs.

Just as a hint...

Maybe @Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) or @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) can say something about the behavior of the Filax in you setup.

0 Likes 0 ·
puddles avatar image
puddles answered ·

Hi there,

Thanks again, If we disregard system design, one can simply state the issue as follows


"The Filax 2 cannot be used with a Victron inverter as the Primary Source, it must always have additonal mains supply to operate".


I possibly would not have purchased this item knowing that and hopefully this series of posts helps others before selecting this ATS.

Many thanks



1 comment
2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Matthias Lange - DE avatar image Matthias Lange - DE ♦ commented ·

I think the Filax can only do what it is designed for(switching from priority to alternate source in case of a failure of the priority source) if booth power sources are available.
That's the reason why the Filax won't pass through the priority source as long as the alternate source isn't available.
If the Filax pass through the priority source with no alternate source available, the connected critical load will crash if the priority source fails in that moment.
So the Filax will pass through the priority source only if the alternate source is available too.

I'm sure it's not a problem of your combination of the components.
You will have the same "problem" with any other inverter or even if you connect the grid to booth inputs.

0 Likes 0 ·
puddles avatar image
puddles answered ·

Giving up on this,

DO NOT BUY THE FILAX 2, THERE IS NO SUPPORT FROM VICTRON

Thanks


2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Justin Cook avatar image
Justin Cook answered ·

@Puddles, your technical support solution is always to contact the authorized distributor from whom you purchased the device; this is a community forum which is frequented by many people with advanced product knowledge as well as multiple Victron staff members, but is not Victron technical support - all technical support should be handled directly by your dealer or distributor.

I will note, as a fellow forum member also previously noted, that according to your initial post it appears that if you connect the Filax as the manual specifies -that is, mains to primary and inverter to secondary- the system works. This presents itself as a very simple solution and does not seem indicative of a component malfunction.

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

puddles avatar image
puddles answered ·

Hey thanks for that,

Have you encountered a similar situation with your own Filax 2? Can you give some more information for this unusual behavior?

Thanks

2 |3000
Toggle Comment visibility. Current Visibility: Viewable by all users

Up to 8 attachments (including images) can be used with a maximum of 190.8 MiB each and 286.6 MiB total.

Related Resources

Additional resources still need to be added for this topic