question

john-b avatar image
john-b asked

How do I increase equalisation time?

Hello Victron community,

This is my first post and my first off grid system which I am still getting used to.


I have a Multiplus 24/3000/50, CCGX and six Northstar Blue NSB210FT. Now I know there are issues using these AGM batteries which require equalisation for 16 hours every two weeks.

I have tried the first equalisation today by flicking the switch on the multi which worked and went into equalisation mode but it seems to switch back to float after about an hour.

Is there a setting to increase the time?

Also to get the Multi to start equalisation I use the MK3 dongle and enabled equalisation in the VE configure but it mentioned “tubular plate batteries”, not sure if my batteries are tubular plate of not?

firmware on my Multi is 1910142 so assume it has the old microprocessor and that I can’t initiate Equalisation via the mobile app?

Any help is appreciate.

Thanks

John

MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Chargerequalisation
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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Which switch on the multi do you flick for equalization?

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

It’s the main switch for on/off/charger only, this is the video I followed for equalisation

https://youtu.be/ldxuEVXEQf4

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Can you share a screenshot of the Ve Configure message you refer to about Tubular plate.

Your batteries are lead carbon.

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

This is not a screenshot of my system but the box I ticked is the middle one for equalisation.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

How deeply discharged are these batteries getting in the course of their use?

“ If the batteries are getting a full recharge to 100% every day then a equlisation charge is not needed.”

From: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/1104/setting-up-different-schedules-of-equalisation-wit.html

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klim8skeptic avatar image klim8skeptic ♦ Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

You have a good point there, equalization may not be required during regular use. A snip from the manual

2.4.2 Equalizing charge
Equalizing charge has the purpose of equalizing all the batteries or cells in a string by applying a higher voltage for a limited time. The individual objects in a string. Batteries, can become unbalanced i.e. the cells have slightly deviating voltages due to various reasons: cell differences, exposed to different temperatures for instance. The equalizing charge shall commence first when the batteries have been charged by normal means. The voltage should be the same as for the boost and same temperature controls shall be applied. Batteries shall be charged for 12-24 hours.
It shall be limited to the boost voltage level and shall not be longer than 16 hours.


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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman klim8skeptic ♦ commented ·

I use Victron Battery Balancers to ensure, I believe, that equalisation is not necessary. There are quite a lot of posts on the forum about balancers (a lot of which are me trying to wrap my head around their application to series-parallel battery banks).

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john-b avatar image john-b klim8skeptic ♦ commented ·

Sorry, just seen you have already posted this information

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Initially i was discharging the batteries to 50% for a couple of months and recharging back to 90%, but I have found that the system voltage seems to have reduced somewhat and I’m getting more low voltage alarms.

So I have changed the SOC parameters to 60% min and 95% max.

I have read in the Northstar Blue technical specifications that these batteries require equalisation every two weeks for 16 hours.

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john-b avatar image john-b john-b commented ·

This is the extract from the battery manufacturer

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Let’s back up a bit.

What is the configuration?

Is there solar? If so, how many panels of what power and what regulators / MPPTs.

How many batteries and in what configuration? Series, series parallel?

What else is doing the charging - AC In?

What’s the application of the system?

Do you still have the equalization option ticked?

Do you have ESS enabled?

If so, what is the battery algorithm?

If it is “keep batteries charged” ( which it appears is not the case ), do you have DVCC enabled and with what config?

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

What is the configuration? This is an off grid system with only a diesel generator for 240v mains.


Is there solar? If so, how many panels of what power and what regulators / MPPTs. No solar

How many batteries and in what configuration? Series, series parallel? Six Northstar Blue 200AH each, three pairs in parallel

What else is doing the charging - AC In? Nothing other than generator

What’s the application of the system? Powering static caravan

Do you still have the equalization option ticked? Yes

Do you have ESS enabled? Not sure what this is But in the menu it says no ESS assistant found

If so, what is the battery algorithm? Not sure what you mean

If it is “keep batteries charged” ( which it appears is not the case ), do you have DVCC enabled and with what config? No DVCC enabled and wouldn’t know how to set it up.


Sorry I am not much help, I am new to this technology and this system is temporary until I get my 12kw solar system installed and 28kw BYD Lithium batteries. Panels are installed but not connected As I don’t have an MPPT on this setup.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman john-b commented ·

Beautiful work on the roof. Is there an installer helping you with this and the current battery and inverter setup, or did you do it yourself?

Is there a reason you can use some of the panels on the interim setup? This would involve buying one MPPT for now.

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Current setup was an ebay special, apparently speedy hire had 50 of them built but they never took off from a hire perspective. So it came as it is and no technical support.

long term setup is from Solar Plants which will have support.


I decided against buying an MPPT for current setup due to cost, was looking at approx £1k to setup some of the panels but I figured £1k would buy a lot of red diesel so wasn’t worth it in the interim.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman john-b commented ·

Ya. Then I’m at a loss.

ESS is a software mode that runs on your Colour Control in combination with your MPPT to optimize use of battery and solar energy and minimize use of the grid. ESS is not applicable to off-grid.

DVCC is a mode that changes the Colour Control from a monitoring device to an active controller but it is not clear to me if it would be of any use without an MPPT in the mix.

Is the solar system you are getting installed also Victron based?

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Yes, long term setup is Victron based, spec is below

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman john-b commented ·

Am I correct the panels in this spec have already been installed?

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Yes, 32 off 330W LG Panels are ready, rest of System will be later this year

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman john-b commented ·

Ps. 1k is a heck of a lot of money for an MPPT. I think you could make a massive difference to your system with something as small as a 150/35 which would set you back 200 quid at most. I assume the rest is the cost of an installer coming to wire it up. If you’re handy, you could do this yourself.

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

This is the quote I got for connecting some of the panels, think it was 10 panels in two strings of 5. Quote is supply only with me installing it.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman john-b commented ·

Your spec above has MPPT 150/100s. Why not buy one of those now.

That’s a lot of passive juice to add to the mix and it will make all the difference if the panels are already up there.

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Please correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think my current Multi 24/3000/50 could accept the 150/100 MPPT?


is there not potential for the solar to produce too much current for my existing setup?

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman john-b commented ·

No.

The multi will draw as much as it can and no more. The MPPT will charge the batteries until they are charged, and no more. The panels will be “throttled” by the MPPT if neither the batteries nor the Multi can use the current they can supply.

For example, I have 3kW of panels on my roof and today when the grid failed, my batteries were fully charged and the house only needed 250W to function.

The solar yield, that had been at around 2500W before the grid failed (feeding in) dropped to about 300W to feed the loads. Nothing else was drawing current, so it was throttled.

My panels can produce more power than my Multi is rated for but the Multi will only pull what it needs.

Remember Voltage is what you need to worry about there being too much of. Voltage “pushes” electricity. Current is “drawn” by the consuming devices.

alt text

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

That’s great advise thanks, I will see if I can get my hands on one of the MPPTs to install on this temporary system. Assume I can connect 16 panels (330w each) to the one 150/100 MPPT?

I don’t mind doing any of this if I know what I’m doing, not sure how many strings and qty of panels to connect.

whats the communication cable between the MPPT and multi, is it a network cable?

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman john-b commented ·

Can you find a spec sheet for the exact panel or get a photo of the sticker on the back of one panel?

Then we can determine the string configuration.

Basically, assuming they are 24V panels, their Open Circuit voltage (Voc) will be 40v or there abouts so you will be able to put 3 in series to get around 120V and then assuming their Short Circuit current (Isc) are around 10A, you could have 9 panels - 3 parallel strings of 3 panels in series.

On a 24V bank, 24V the 150/100 is rated for 2900W so any more than 9 panels would likely be a waste anyway.

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

This is the panel spec, let me know if you need any more info.

I will order the 150/100MPPT today, should I order all the other items on the above quote to allow me to connect up?

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Hi Warwick,


sorry for the lack of communication on this, the solar panels are already wired into the attic space 4 panels in series, I know you originally said three in series but that would mean removing some of the panels to bring the 3rd panel in each set through.

I have 8 sets of 4 panels in series, can we use them somehow on my temporary system?

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ john-b commented ·

@warwick @John B,

Sorry to barge in on the conversation like this, but you have unintentionally inspired a new community guideline "More Technical than Business" about discussing dealer pricing, and dealer quality/reputation.

I have made some edits to your posts to comply with the new guideline.

I hope you both understand that while your posts were in good faith and support the best intentions, that as we are the manufacturer, this is probably a topic of discussion we need to keep out of this community generally.

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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Hi John

If I can still help you with any advice on this please email me w@rwick.com

Warwick

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1 Answer
JohnC avatar image
JohnC answered ·

Hi John. This sheet changes everything. It's all in the nomenclature. What they call 'Boost' is what Victron call 'Absorb', and the levels quite modest anyway (14.1V for 12V +/- temp compensation).

What they call 'Equalize' is actually just a long Absorb at the same modest V's. And given these batts seem designed largely for ups service, probably unnecessary anyway if you're cycling them daily.

What Victron (& others) call Equalize, is a serious stir-up at (say) 15.5 - 16V. Your maker doesn't suggest that at all.

Take a step back and reconsider your aims here..



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Warwick Bruce Chapman avatar image Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Please untick that box.

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john-b avatar image john-b Warwick Bruce Chapman commented ·

Will untick now, thanks Warwick.

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john-b avatar image john-b commented ·

Ok thanks for the advice John.

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