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rotevery avatar image
rotevery asked

Please Share Experience of Operating Quattro Inverter at (close to) Maximum Power Rating

Question: Please has anyone been successfully operating 48V 15KVA Quattro continuously at close to its maximum rating (12KW) for long period (one year or more)? My system is designed for significant increase in 230V AC load in the near future, but my Quattro has been giving me concerns even at low loads right from the beginning. I have initiated RMA with the dealer but I just want to know my options for future planning.

Background: I have two sites with almost identical design; installed in April 2023 and July 2023, respectively. The Quattro in the first site has not given me any concerns yet. For the second site, the Quattro zero load power self-consumption has been a source of concern from day one. It's been a significant drain on my precious battery storage so much so that I have not really used the Quattro for up to 1 month (cumulative) since I installed it. The manual that came with the Quattro says it should be 80W but it has consistently been greater than 150W. I have been using my backup 8kW Sorotec inverter for almost all the time. Been switching on the Quattro once in a while mostly during daytime for mostly no-load preservation purpose. Been all the while in conversation with the dealer who have been expressing doubt about existence of zero load power issue. Recently I bought additional Smart Shunt and installed for dedicated measurement of the zero-load power of the Quattro. My original (DVCC) calculation/indication of the zero-load power being greater than the Quattro's design specification limit was confirmed and dealer stopped doubting that this issue exists. This is the first sign of issues with this Quattro.

The second issue with this 15KVA Quattro is that the fans have NEVER come on since day one. Recently I tested it with increased load and temperature alarm came up at just 4.6 kW load and the fans never came on. Alarm goes away if you reduce the load. This has me thinking that the Quattro at the other site may similarly fail when I increase the load in future per my plan. Who knows what would happen if I connect to grid or generator and use the Quattros in charger mode?

Now the reason I switched to using Victron products is because my Chinese product (8kW Sorotec) was giving temperature alarm when loaded to about 5kW (at least the fans come on) and I didn't want to mess around with retrofitting the inverter / changing the fans like some suggested. I thought the Victron products come load tested from factory both in inverter-only mode and in charger mode. I feel deeply disappointed that a 12kW rated Victron inverter is overheating at an even lower percentage load. I feel disappointed having to spend money to return (and possibly later retrieve) such (4 to 5 times more) expensive Victron product to/from the dealer/distributor. The hassles do not seem to justify the confidence and big extra cost of switching to Victron.

System Setup: Fully off-grid. 13.8kWp solar panels on roof, 2 x Smart Solar RS 100A MPPT's, 1 x 48V 15kVA Quattro, initially 40kWh but now 90kWh LFP battery packs, Smart Shunt for battery packs, new dedicated Smart Shunt installed in Quattro DC connection to DC busbars, Cerbo GX, GX Touch 70, Victron DC busbars with cover, Sorotec 8kW inverter (originally intended as backup inverter; 60W zero load consumption) as DC load. Good clearance space around Quattro. Quattro installed in upright position on specifically designed stool with sufficient clearance space/ventilation in all directions including below the unit.




MultiPlus Quattro Inverter Chargerinverter current drawTemperature Alarmfan
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1 Answer
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

Hi @RotEvery, the next step would be to test the unit yourself with a high load and see what happens.

The intention is to run the inverter/charger until it shuts down and gives you an error code which might help explain what is going on.

The unit has numerous temperature, voltage, and current protections, these will get logged via the GX device to VRM and should give a clearer picture if there is an issue (and where it might be).

It’s possible the fan cable is not securely connected, this is a relatively straight forward repair to reconnect it.

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rotevery avatar image rotevery commented ·

Okay. Thanks. It's been returned to the dealer/distributor (who already have access to my VRM site) and they will soon revert with their findings. I want to get examples of users who have successfully used the unit continuously at say 80 to 85% of rated load for long time with no temperature alarms while operating within design and environmental limits. If there are, it will go a long way in reducing my concerns for the long-term use / reliance on the unit.

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Fideri avatar image Fideri rotevery commented ·
@RotEvery

Not exactly the parameters you are looking for but a fair indicator.

I have a Quattro 10kva (6800w) that I have been running at 6000w for 3 hours daily for 3 months. It runs without a stumble.

I must say that my room has an AC.

F.

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rotevery avatar image rotevery Fideri commented ·

That's about 75% of the continous load rating (8000W) at 25 deg C. Thanks for sharing.

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ rotevery commented ·
25C is the internal temp, not ambient air temp.

You would need a much cooler/air-conditioned room to keep a working system at or below 25C.

No unit will run flat-out at 100% for a sustained period without derating, designing to do this is not good practice. Rather leave 25% headroom for temperature and other transients.

With 9C ambient temps I can get the multis to derate after a few minutes.

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rotevery avatar image rotevery nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
Kindly clarify what you mean by internal temperature. I thought the 25 deg C is for standard (lab) conditions. In a climate-controlled lab with a temp of 25 deg C, would the tester be using a different "internal" temperature for the load tests? The datasheet has continuous load ratings for 40 deg C and 65 deg C. Are those not ambient temperature ratings?

The inverters/chargers are (supposed to be) tested per international standards by independent third parties and certified. If user operates a unit within the design and environmental limits, I see no reason why it would not operate at 100% of its continuous load rating.


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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ rotevery commented ·

No one runs a unit under lab conditions, nor loads.

PV panels don't produce near their lab ratings in the real world.

Just sharing the info, use it as you please, or don't. Just don't be disappointed when expectations are not met.

In my case, I am way above sea-level (like many users are) so density altitude has a proper effect on operation.

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rotevery avatar image rotevery nickdb ♦♦ commented ·

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your experience.


These are off-the-shelf units, that's why we are even having this conversation. For equipment that are specifically engineered for site conditions, they get operated at 100% rating continuously with no issues.

If these off-the-shelf units have to be derated even when site condition are within design / test limits, then the specifications and especially, the third-party testing and certifications may be considered worthless.

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Fideri avatar image Fideri rotevery commented ·
@RotEvery

You are right, having looked at the datasheet again. Even better for me. I guess I was being conservative because I think those are lab numbers as opposed to real world numbers.

F.

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rotevery avatar image rotevery Fideri commented ·

Right. Assuming the site conditions are outside of the design/test limits. That's why sharing of actual installation numbers is helpful in planning.

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rotevery avatar image rotevery rotevery commented ·
On the fan cable, I think it's securely connected because I had sent this same Quattro to the dealer/distributor in the past on a similar complaint and they had checked the fan connection at their shop after which they brought back the Quattro to my site and helped to install it at my site.
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rotevery avatar image rotevery rotevery commented ·

The dealer / distributor has measured the zero-load power of my Quattro 15KVA and that of another brand-new Quattro 15KVA unit. See attached videos from dealer. They got 159W for each. (I had measured and got 154W at site using a dedicated SmartShunt. See attached VRM screenshot). They say since both my unit and the other brand-new unit have the same zero-load power, my unit is okay even when it is outside the Victron specification of 80W in the manual. I notice that the manual that came with the Quattro specifies a Zero Load Power (self-consumption) of 80W while an online datasheet for the Quattro specifies Zero Load Power of 110W. My Quattro's Zero Load Power exceeds both limits. Victron please advise on this.

On the fans, they said they found the cable was not well connected to the PCB. They said they've connected it, and the fans are now working. Interesting since last time (last year) they told me they checked the fan connections, and all was okay. At that time, we had agreed that the fan was probably not coming on because the unit was not being subjected to sufficient load. Now they think I should come and pick up the unit again.

I'm asking them to do load test per the relevant sections of the pre-RMA checklist. I don't want to discover when I load it to say 10kW that temperature alarm is coming on and/or the unit is tripping, I don't want to pay transport for a third round trip to the dealer. Already incurred cost of two round trips to dealer.



quattro-15kva-self-consumption-154w.jpeg



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quattro-15kva-self-consumption-154w.jpeg (13.1 KiB)