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btv128 avatar image
btv128 asked

Orion 12-12-30 in absorption rather than bulk

Just installed the above and was away for a night, with plenty of TV, lights and diesel heater.

My non-victron shunt shows I was down to 90% of my 2x110AH batteries.

The Orion was working, but wasn't delivering the 30A I was expecting according to my shunt. Looking at the Victron screen it was just staying in Absorption rather than going to Bulk as I'd have expected.

Current input was circa 15A, and time to fully charged was well over an hour, which could have been halved if was bulking in 30A.

I'm using the Gel preset, my vehicle is a Ford 2.2 Euro 5 engine, which I believe is NOT smart alternator (I never saw any variation in voltage when I had a voltage sensing relay)

Is there any reason why a) it isn't going to bulk when the batteries are only 90% charged and b) why its only delivering 15A (sometimes less)

I turned the solar off for this, but I'm also curious what would hyappen if I have victron solar also connected. Do the devices talk to each other?


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btv128 answered ·

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delf67 avatar image
delf67 answered ·

The charger is only putting in 15A because the battery voltage is already at 14.62V. Presumably that is the absorption voltage you have set?

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delf67 avatar image delf67 commented ·
Bulk mode will put in UPTO 30A until absorption voltage is reached, then the current is reduced to maintain the absorption voltage until charged.
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btv128 avatar image btv128 commented ·

Thanks.

I'm using the preset AGM Spiral Cell. As advised by the seller of the battery. See attached.

Looks like the absorbtion voltage on that is 14.7v

The chart I have on AGM charge levels shows 100%=13v, 90%=12.75v, 80%=12.5v

So the shunt and voltage seem to tie up, although its arguably a little less than 90%.

It would have been interesting to discharge it a little more, and see if I could have got it to bulk, but looking at those settings it didn't reach 14.7v

This further makes me wonder what would happen if I hadn't disconnected my victron solar charger. It would have probably been charging at 14.8v even though the wattage would have been terrible. Would this prevent the Orion from charging due to the voltage?

ThanksScreenshot_20240303-194640.png

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delf67 avatar image delf67 btv128 commented ·
14.62V is less than 1% away from 14.7V, so that's pretty much what you're seeing. Yes, if the solar was also charging and had raised the voltage to (approx) 14.7V the Orion wouldn't have been charging at all.
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btv128 avatar image btv128 delf67 commented ·

OK. Firstly, I'll have to ensure I use one or the other. Which isn't a huge deal .. Solar in summer, DC in winter.


Is there any harm in raising the Absorbsion voltage a bit higher? Firstly to test it. But secondly so I can get the battery topped up a bit quicker? In winter the van doesn't do much mileage. But does get used on the drive or locally sometimes as an office.

So I might drop to 90% one day. But only be driving it for 30 mins for the next week. So it would be good to get the batteries topped up abit quicker.

And if its not an issue, what sort of voltage would you suggest, given the 100%=13v, 90%=12.75v, 80%=12.5v above?


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delf67 avatar image delf67 btv128 commented ·

You really need to stick to your battery manufacturer's specs with regard to charging voltage. You could possibly increase the voltage above what they say for a slight reduction in charge time, but that is almost certainly going to reduce the lifespan of your battery.


I'm not really familiar with gel batteries but I think they are more prone to damage through overcharging than flooded lead-acid batteries.

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btv128 avatar image btv128 delf67 commented ·

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-xtreme-110ah-agm-leisure-battery-xr1750/

Looks like charge voltage is 14.6 to 14.8

And topup 13.6 to 13.8

So presumably I can go at least 0.1 higher. If I set it at 14.8 and it still isn't bulking at 14.6, then presumably it looks like something is wrong?

My victron solar definitely bulk charges them.

Thanks

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delf67 avatar image delf67 btv128 commented ·

Don't get hung up on terms. Bulk just means that the battery hasn't reached absorption voltage yet.

Charging a battery from 90-100% is far slower than from 70-80% or 80-90% because the internal impedance of the battery changes as it get more full.

At 90% charged, 30A would push the voltage way over and damage the battery.

If your battery is discharged and you watch the app when you switch on the Orion it should show bulk and you will see a large initial flow of amps (upto 30) until the voltage reaches the absorption voltage. This stage is probably happening quickly as the battery is still 90% charged, so it doesn't take much to reach absorption voltage. It will then switch into absorption mode and reduce the current as necessary to maintain absorption voltage.

If you are seeing bulk with your solar for longer, it is probably because the solar is supplying less amps, so taking longer to push the battery upto absorption voltage.

If you drain your battery down lower, say 70%, the Orion will charge in bulk (probably @30A) for a lot longer because there is more "space" available in the battery without it going over voltage.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your Orion.

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btv128 avatar image btv128 delf67 commented ·
Thank You for your help, and in particular that very detailed last response.

Much Appreciated.

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