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goon326 asked

Adding a Orion-TR Smart DC-DC battery charger, which size?

Dear Community,

Is adding an Isolated Orion-TR Smart DC-DC battery charger to my system useful? I have an 1991 westfalia system with a relai between the start battery and the household battery and an regular alternator that gives with lights and engine on between the 13.7-14.0 volt. And which size should I take?

Start battery: 80ah lead battery

Household battery: 200ah lithium with BMS

Alternator: 14v 90ah

https://m.autodoc.nl/bosch/1158260#productImageGroup

I am going to use the following setup in my t4 California Westfalia from 1991:

  • 130wp solar panel (and maybe a second one)
  • SmartSolar MPPT 75/15
  • BMV 712
  • Phoenix 12/1200
  • 200 ah Lithium battery (not from victron)

Kind regards,

goon326

MPPT SmartSolarBMV Battery MonitorPhoenix InverterVE.Bus Smart Dongle
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matthias-nagel avatar image matthias-nagel commented ·
Do you have more details on the technical specifications of your alternator? How much power does the alternator provide? The Orion-Tr Smart should not be "bigger" than the alternator otherwise you could overload it. Having detail about the starter battery is fine, but in this case it is the alternator which actually counts.

Moreover, rumors are that Victron will launch a successor to the Orion-Tr which is really smart and supported communication with other Victron products. If you can wait that lontg, I would do it.


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Michelle Konzack avatar image Michelle Konzack matthias-nagel commented ·

He wrote 90A.


A Orion-Tr Smart 12/12/30 should be no problem for the old Westfalia. But it depends on the Battery if it can take 30A otherwise he has to go with the 20A model.


Even my newer Sprinter work with 65A Alternator and my installed 90A one power an Orion-Tr Smart 12/24-15


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matthias-nagel avatar image matthias-nagel Michelle Konzack commented ·
Sorry, my fault. I missed that bit of information. I agree with your recommendations.
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goon326 avatar image goon326 Michelle Konzack commented ·
The battery can go to 100A max for charging and 200A max for discharging.
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goon326 avatar image goon326 matthias-nagel commented ·

I only know this about my alternator:

https://m.autodoc.nl/bosch/1158260#productImageGroup

It is 14V and gives 90A. What do you need to know more?

Do you know when the new product is coming? And can I also charge my lithium battery without this product and what is the use of using this within my system?

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matthias-nagel avatar image matthias-nagel goon326 commented ·
It is 14V and gives 90A. What do you need to know more?

Sorry my fault. I missed that information on first reading.

Do you know when the new product is coming?

No, there is no official statement from VE, yet. Rumors in this forum are whispering about mid-2024.

And can I also charge my lithium battery without this product and what is the use of using this within my system?

The problem with the current Orion-Tr Smart is that they are not "smart" at all. In particular, if you have more than one charger the Orion-Tr does not communicate with the other chargers to provide an optimal overall charging strategy to the battery. The Orion-Tr Smart only has a "local" control loop.

In particular for your setup I would recommnd to have the MPPT, the Phoenix and the future version of the Orion connected to a Cerbo GX as the central control unit. A compatible BMS of the Lithium battery reports its demands to the Cerbo and the Cerbo will orchestrate all chargers (MPPT, Phoenix, future Orion) such that they jointly do what the BMS requests. However, the current version of the Orion does not play along with the others.

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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ matthias-nagel commented ·
As long as the charge rate of the Orion is below the acceptable limit of the battery, it's not an issue that the Orion isn't controlled. The other charger(s) will be throttled until the BMS or shunt report the configured charge rate to the Cerbo/DVCC.
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goon326 avatar image goon326 kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·

Can I charge my lithium battery without de DC-DC charger for the coming months, than I will wait until the new charger is out. And should I take the isolated version?

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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ goon326 commented ·
Won't be good. Little point in waiting. The existing ones work very well. There's no word from Victron about a new model and there haven't been any posts on one so far.
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goon326 avatar image goon326 matthias-nagel commented ·

So if I understand correctly the current Orion does not look at my temperature and voltage sensor and stop charging if the temp or voltage is to high? But it does increase the voltage so I can fully charge my lithium battery?

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matthias-nagel avatar image matthias-nagel goon326 commented ·
The Orion has an internal voltage sensor and uses that to control the charging process. (I am not sure if the Orion also has an internal temperature sensors but I assume so.) The idea is that the Orion has to mounted near the battery such that the voltage (and temperature) which the Orion measures internally are approximately the same as for the battery. The Orion cannot use an "external" sensor (e.g. a SmartShunt, BMV-712, etc.)
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1 Answer
kevgermany avatar image
kevgermany answered ·

Rule of thumb. Keep total continuous load below 50% of alternator rating. If you don't there's a good chance of overheating the alternator, especially at low revs. 50% must include driving with lights on etc. 30A should be fine as @Michelle Konzack said.

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