question

Marco Nijholt avatar image
Marco Nijholt asked

Missed opertunity with Lynx Smart BMS 1000 (i think) [VENT]

UPDATE: So I apparently missed the November 2022 update where the limit of batteries in a system has been changed to 20 total, regardless of how they are interconnected. Previously, this was max 5 batteries or sets of batteries in parallel. This resolves my personal issue where I could not reach my desired battery bank capacity. But my post still stands for anyone who wishes a larger system and wants to use victron batteries but also wants to run on a 48v system. For 24 and 12v systems, you can use their "superpack" batteries which have internal bmses and can be unlimited scaled parallel but cannot be put into series.


ORIGINAL POST:

So, I might be a minority user here that is using victrons own smart lifepo4 batteries and wants to upgrade my battery bank beyond the limit of 5 sets in parallel.

For example, I use the 25v 200-a smart batteries now with 2 in series to get to the 48v system and 5 of those in parallel for an energy storage of 51kwh +/-.

I'd love to upgrade my energy storage to 100kwh +/-, currently the max theoretical using the lynx smart bms is 85kwh (4x12v@330AH and 5 sets of those). But that would mean a full replacement of existing batteries to not even achieve the capacity I ideally want, and on top of it I find it less ideal to have 4 batteries of 12v in series.

So one fix would be to offer larger batteries 25v batteries, but physical dimensions I feel like would really be a problem there as the 200ah 25v are already pretty large, or a revision with stronger BMS signals that allows more to be daisy-chained.

But... If the signal strength (based on the signals emitted from the batteries over the BMS cables) is not strong enough to pass through more batteries. Why not create 2 BMS loops/buses on the lynx smart bms? It seems like a very cheap and "relatively" easy way to allow people to run a larger battery bank.

However


The lynx smart BMS 1000A (maybe if you want higher Amperage, you also want more batteries to keep the C rating low?) does not seem to have additional BMS signal connectors. Hence, my title 'missed opportunity'.

Of course, there is no spec sheet available for this "new" product. So perhaps they have made different improvements, such as an improved receiver, that could allow for more batteries to be daisy-chained.

Additionally, a fix would be to allow more than 1 lynx smart BMS in a system.

Switching to super packs in combination with a shunt is not an option either, they are infinitely scalable in parallel, but would have me operate a 25.6v system which would require a full system replacement and additionally, much thicker DC cables.


In the end, it could just be their opinion that if you want such storage, to just use third-party products as battery bank. But it still disappoints me regardless.


Thanks for coming to my ted vent!

48v batterylynx bms
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1 Answer
klim8skeptic avatar image
klim8skeptic answered ·

@Marco Nijholt I'd love to upgrade my energy storage to 100kwh +/-, currently the max theoretical using the lynx smart bms is 85kwh

If you use the 25.6v - 200 Ah batteries, 20 of them gives a battery bank capacity of 102 kWh.

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Marco Nijholt avatar image Marco Nijholt commented ·

That’s the hole point. You can’t have 20 25v batteries as that would be 10 sets of 2 batteries in parallel. As the limit is 5 sets in parallel according to the documentation so 10 batteries max in a 48v system using 24v batteries. To clarify the batteries in 1 set are in series. The limit is specifically set to 5 batteries or sets of batteries in parallel


I don’t know why you can have 20 batteries if it’s 5 sets of 4. But not 10 sets of 2. Unless the limit has the do with the amount of cells but then you should be able to have way more then 5 12v batteries in parallel on a 12v system.

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klim8skeptic avatar image klim8skeptic ♦ Marco Nijholt commented ·

@Marco Nijholt the limit is 20 batteries total. No matter how they are paralleled.

Smart Lithium Battery datasheet.

1 Like 1 ·
mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ klim8skeptic ♦ commented ·

To add:

https://professional.victronenergy.com/news/detail/184/


Having two sets of circular connectors is actually a nice idea. I don’t know by heart if that was ever considered.

We’re working on various future improvements that will take care of various of the vented frustrations; but too early to discuss in public

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Marco Nijholt avatar image Marco Nijholt mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ commented ·
I missed that update, damn, that's such a shame!

Recently (2 weeks ago) moved the whole system from inside the house to a technical outhouse (mainly due to noise, that's an additional pet peeve I have with the multiplusses), would have been the perfect moment to increase the size of the battery system.

Either way, great to see you guys are working on them.

Regarding the multiple circular loops for BMS. I think it's a great idea because it doesn't require modifying the BMS signal itself (e.g. boosting it or battery revisions with stronger signals) which may require full system replacements. An extra loop seems one of the cheapest and non-breaking changes you could make.

Now, I don't know if the capability in the hardware is there for the i/o. And replacing that may or may not be an extensive task. But hey, my 2 cents.

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pwfarnell avatar image pwfarnell klim8skeptic ♦ commented ·

The confusion is caused by the generic BMS datasheet that states 5 parallel strings is the limit for all BMS versions, which is probably now outdated. However both the datasheet and manual for the lynx BMS 500 ( which the 1000) replaces have the same 20 battery limit as the Smart Battery datasheet. ,

BMS overview

Lynx datasheet

Lynx manual

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Marco Nijholt avatar image Marco Nijholt pwfarnell commented ·

They must have updated the manuals to reflect this.

I'm fairly certain that even the battery manual as well as the lynx BMS manual (or at least one of the 2) had the limit for 5 in parallel mentioned as well.

I never made sense to me as it was explained that the signal loss was the main issue. But parallel or series does not change the way you daisy-chain the BMS loop.

Either way, I'm very happy with this news!

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Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) avatar image Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) ♦♦ pwfarnell commented ·
Thanks for pointing out that documentation discrepancy @pwfarnell - I've just asked for the BMS overview to be updated to the new limit of 20.
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