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elojack avatar image
elojack asked

Orion-TR 12/12-9A as charger output doesnt goes up until batterie ist disconnected (several hundred pieces)

Hello,

i hope you can help me.

We bought several hundred Orion-TR 12/12-9A for a large project in order to be able to charge LiFePO4 batteries (Jubatec with BMS) (12.8V / 6AH) on the vehicle on-board network in a galvanically isolated manner.

The prototype with an Orion-TR12/12-9A, which was delivered in mid-2021, worked very well, but the devices from the final large delivery from late 2021-early 2022 only ramp up their output after applying the input voltage when the battery the output has been briefly disconnected even though the output LED is green. Apparently the device can no longer cope with the external voltage of the battery. The set output voltage of the Orion is irrelevant. We have noticed that the new shipment now has E4 10R-064720 approval, which the prototype device does not have. Maybe there is a connection here?

SN of one of the non-functioning devices: HQ2136QDPPQ.

Working prototype SN: HQ2107RLXXG.

The batteries have already been tested, that's not the reason.

We now have several hundred Orion-TR12/12-9A, which are not suitable for their purpose.

Anyone an idea? Victron support?

Orion DC-DC Converters not smart
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9 Answers
sebcbien avatar image
sebcbien answered ·

Using a diode on the output to block the battery voltage to show up is doing the trick.

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elojack avatar image
elojack answered ·

After testing all possible solutions, we decided to return all devices to Victron via our distributor. We were supposed to charge LIFEPO batteries that would not have reached their end-of-charge voltage with a diode in series with the output, and a not inconsiderable amount of power loss would have dropped across it. So this was not an option for us.

With a total of 750 pieces, a complex relay circuit would have led to considerable additional work and costs. In the meantime, Victron Support has also reported and confirmed that there were probably changes to the hardware due to delivery problems that are now causing the problem. Apparently we were the first to notice.

However, I then ask myself what the quality assurance at Victron looks like. You should have tested that. We have now opted for a different technical solution without a Victron product.

Good luck and regards

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elojack avatar image
elojack answered ·

Nochmal in Deutsch, falls mein Englisch nicht verständlich ist :-)

Wir haben für ein großes Projekt mehrere hundert Orion-TR 12/12-9A gekauft um damit LiFePO4 Batterien (Jubatec) (12,8V /6AH) am KFZ Boardnetz galvanisch getrennt aufladen zu können.

Der Prototyp mit einem Orion-TR12/12-9A, welcher Mitte 2021 geliefert wurde hat sehr gut funktioniert, aber die Geräte aus der finalen großen Lieferung von Ende 2021-Anfang 2022 fahren ihren Ausgang nach dem anlegen der Eingangspannung erst hoch, wenn die Batterie am Ausgang einmal kurz abgeklemmt wurde, obwohl die LED des Ausgangs grün leuchtet. Scheinbar kommt das Gerät mit der Fremdspannung der Batterie nicht mehr klar. Die eingestellte Ausgangsspannung des Orions spielt dabei keine Rolle. Wir haben festgestellt, dass die neue Lieferung jetzt die E4 10R-064720 Zulassung hat, welches das Gerät im Protoypen nicht hat. Vielleicht besteht hier ein Zusammenhang?

SN einer der nicht der nicht funktionierden Geräte: HQ2136QDPPQ.

SN des funktionierden Prototypen: HQ2107RLXXG.

Die Batterien wurden schon getestet, daran liegt es nicht.

Wir haben jetzt mehrere hundert Orion-TR12/12-9A, welche für ihren Einsatzzweck nicht geeignet sind.

Jemand eine Idee? Victron support?

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

Hi @Elojack

Best to contact your supplier for a solution (refund or change for other versions), what I think happens is that the starting current is too high, and orion thinks there is a short-circuit.

I'd always use a dc-dc 'charger' (smart version) for charging batteries, as they can provide a correct charge profile also.

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elojack avatar image
elojack answered ·

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

Thank you for your answer. I cant believe the current is the problem, because we tested everything at the output. A suppressordiode, various resistores in series (so current is limited), coils and snubbercapacitators. Nothing works. In the victron datasheet official says that it works also as Charger. The BMS in the LIFEPO handle the charging process, so no additional charger ist needed.

The old version of the Orion TR 12/12-9 works fine in the same setup, with various batterys.

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lucky70 avatar image
lucky70 answered ·

Hi i have the exactly same problem as you.
Mine have SN HQ2141VTUQY


Did you manage to find a solution?


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stefano-giuliani avatar image
stefano-giuliani answered ·

Hi,

I have the same problem, now with 2 different parts (orion tr 12-12-9). After talking with Offgridtec technical support was told me that it was an issue with the specific part and I returned it to Amazon and bought a new one, that is behaving in exactely in the same way.
So, now, after my and your experience I'm convinced that it's a design issue, maybe related to a modification after the prototype phase.
The workaround I'm using is to separate the Orion output from the battery with a diode (accepting the power loss on the diode itself); in this way the orion starts correctly also with the remote.

The s/n of the parts I tested are:
- HQ21313ZMUT (first purchase)
- HQ2143XXWJF (second purchase)

Considering that the user manual states that the unit can be used to float charge a battery I think it's pretty bad to show such a problem. I thought that Victron products were better than this, even if this product is quite cheap.

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gabserv avatar image
gabserv answered ·

Hi, same behavior here.

It looks like the unit won’t turn on the output if there if a voltage already present at the output. (e.g Like an external battery)

I wonder how would that work if several units output are connected in parallel. This mode of operation is advertised to be a supported in the product literature…So I assume the unit should turn on regardless if a voltage is present or not…. Which does seems to be the case clearly.

Design issue??
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sebcbien avatar image
sebcbien answered ·

Hello, same problem here with a Victron Orion-Tr 48/12-9A

If the output battery (12v) is disconnected, I can set the output voltage to 13.5V for example.

I then connect the battery and the Orion starts charging it. Perfect !

Now if I turn off the remote switch and turn it back on, the Orion does not resume charging.

So it looks like the unit won't turn on the output if there is voltage already present at the output...

As we have no response from Victron for 4 months now, it looks like they made a mistake with those 2022 Orion :-/

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