Orion T Isolated 12/30 Charger - 3x parallel but not outputting 90 Amps - why not?

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kajimike asked Dec 28 2021 at 3:37 AM

Orion T Isolated 12/30 Charger - 3x parallel but not outputting 90 Amps - why not?

I have three Orion T 12/30 Isolated chargers installed in my Ford Transit RV (Ford Transit 2020 350HD chassis), hoping to get 90 Amp Hours of charging from them. But the maximum charging Amps I see is around 72 Amps. I am wondering if my settings are preventing these units for outputting their full power. I have attached a PDF of the settings, all three have the same settings.

OrionT Settings - 12-27-2021.pdf

My system includes 600 AH of Lithium Batteries (100 x 6), the Ford Transit has two 250 AH alternators, and I have connected the Orions to the CCP2 power output stud under the driver seat. This CCP2 can provide up to 175 Amps of 12 volt power. When running the Transit I turn the 'Auto Stop/Start' to OFF.

All three Orions are mounted properly, and each has a cooling fan blowing air over them. After 1.5 hours of running I see these temperature values: Blue outer case: 114 F, Black cooling fins: 110 F.

Well within specifications to provide full output.

If I run only two of the Orions I will see about 60 Amps of charge. But then turning on the third unit does not provide another 30 amps of charge.

Thanks for your input.

orion-tr smart

oriont-settings-12-27-2021.pdf (368.8 KiB)

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joanspark commented · Dec 29 2021 at 1:27 PM

please restate the exact type of battery you got there, voltages, amperages, type, brand, chemistry, etc.. I would expect them (or the BMS that controls them) to be the bottleneck you are experiencing.

Neither '600Ah' or '100x6' is a proper way to describe a battery that would allow anyone here to give you useful advice. ;-)

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kajimike joanspark commented · Dec 29 2021 at 6:07 PM

LifeBlue Lithium battery - 100 Amp Hour . Six (6) of these, for a total of 600 amp hours of 12 volt power.

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joanspark kajimike commented · Dec 30 2021 at 3:01 AM

per datasheet the max parallel they recommend is 4.

Under Charge it lists max charge current as 100A for 30min at 77degF.. your 90A are pretty close to that (marketting and all considered I'd say the BMS/battery can't cope with more than what you got). Recommended is 1-80A charge current.

Personally I'd tried to convert the 12V from the alternators to 24V and then charged a 24V battery bank. Currents are lower then and the conversion losses negligible, while giving you the option to attach a single mppt charger that runs from 300+ Watt solar panels that are used on houses. Your 350HD chassis should have enough roof space to slap 2-3 on there ;-)

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kajimike joanspark commented · Dec 30 2021 at 9:33 PM

>>Neither '600Ah' or '100x6' is a proper way to describe a battery that would allow anyone here to give you useful advice. <<

Your reply is rude and uncalled for. Even when I politely spelled out explicitly what these mean, you were unable to give me any useful advice in your most recent post.

People with experience in electrical system understand the term 'AH' = 'amperage hours'. Likewise, '100x6' is understandable as well to most experienced people, in the context above as being six (6) 100 amp hour lithium batteries.

If English is not your mother tongue, or you have little experience in actually working with, or building these kinds of systems, its OK to say so. Or its OK to not answer. Both are fine. Please do not waste other people's time with inaccurate and misleading information, on subjects you clearly have little to no understanding or expertise.

>> per datasheet the max parallel they recommend is 4. <<

I stated clearly I have three (3) Orion T-Smart B2B chargers 12/30 models. What relevance is your reply about 'recommend is 4'?

>>Under Charge it lists max charge current as 100A for 30min at 77degF.. your 90A are pretty close to that (marketting and all considered I'd say the BMS/battery can't cope with more than what you got). <<

Again, if you do not understand or have experience with these types of systems, please step away from the keyboard and resist the urge to write something. In my system described above, with six (6) 100 amp hour lithium batteries wired in parallel (to provide 600 amp hours of 12 volt power), whatever total charge current is produced by the three (3) Orions is going to be approximately divided into each battery. Using the battery monitor app, which views input or output current in individual batteries in my system, I see no more than 17 amp hours of charge going into any single battery. You will never see '90A', as you wrote, going into any single battery, in this system.

>>Recommended is 1-80A charge current.<<

How is this comment relevant?

>>Personally I'd tried to convert the 12V from the alternators to 24V and then charged a 24V battery bank. Currents are lower then and the conversion losses negligible, while giving you the option to attach a single mppt charger that runs from 300+ Watt solar panels that are used on houses. Your 350HD chassis should have enough roof space to slap 2-3 on there ;-)<<

Personally I think your suggested plan reflects your entire misunderstanding of MY system (described above) and what I am trying to accomplish. And troubleshoot. While the solar panel factor is not really relevant in my situation of trying to maximize Transit alternator output, I already have approx. (this is short for 'approximately') 600 watts of 12 volt solar panel on the roof already.

Thank you for not replying

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dc4me kajimike commented · Dec 08 2022 at 10:12 PM

From looking outside in I see nothing that is rude in his response. The way I see it you are being rude! I would be surprised if you ever get any responses to help you. But I will give you one. Go back and read what joanspark wrote. Your Lifeblue is stating not to put more than 4 batteries in parallel. I am no "expert" but I know sometimes balancing cells could be the problem.

The Lifeblue balancing circuits, like most don't carry much current so are only suitable for a "fine tune" on the balance. They might eventually balance a way out of line cell, but it might take months of cycles. A battery that experiences high loading (and thus higher cell internal losses, especially in a weak cell) might never get balanced.

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Michelle Konzack commented · Dec 12 2022 at 1:35 PM

How long is the PLUS and MINUS cable between the Alternator and the 3 Orion-Tr 12/12-30?

Since you have setup the Orions (it seems they are 360W models) probably to 13,8V, you will not get more the 26A out of a Orion.

Then, at 12V, the Orions will draw each around 35-40A hence 105-120A.

Did you consider the Power loss over the cables?

This installation require at least 50mm² from the Battery to the Distribution Block and then for eack Orion at least 16mm².

A 24V Alternator would solv many problems

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Answer 1 · 2022-02-14T03:41:27Z

nicetrip answered · Feb 14 2022 at 3:41 AM

whats happening here? I have two in parallel, I am an electrician. So what I figured out so far in my system, don't put too much load on your alternator. A Ford Transit has probably no more then a 12V 60A alternator, I would not add more then 30A load in addition to what it has to run, like stereo, AC fans , electric seat heating or mirrors, lights. 3x 30A on 12/12V is impossible for you, burns your alternator, doesn't matter how big your battery is. On a 12/24-30A TR you have 15A on the alternator input side.

I see you have two alternators in your Transit, so maybe 2x60A? 250 Ah is no alternator size, its battery size. Alternators have either 12 or 24 volts, and then depending on motor size 60 (in my case 90 ampere on a 5.2liter industrial truck engine). A Transit has 2.5 liters or so, in size.

So with a smaller motor, your alternators are limited to max 2, and if you want to charge massive batteries like 600Ah you will have slow charging. Can't pull too much energy out of a small motor, if you add big alternators, they will pull your motor down when idling and destroy it in some ways.

Hope that helps, cheers from Australia

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minmin commented · Dec 08 2022 at 11:40 AM

I saw that too labelling the alternator output as "Ah" but I just assumed they meant "A"...

My 13 year older stock transit with much smaller engine comes with a 150A alt... with upgraded ones being 200 and 250A so I don't doubt they have this. With the newer model I suspect they are "smart" alternators of some kind as well but they appear to have disabled some of the smart features.

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thshh commented · Dec 09 2022 at 11:24 AM

Sprinter 906/907 standard alternator also got a 180A output. So this cannot be the reason.

@kajimike connect orion number 3 to alternator number 1 and see if that works.

If yes: Issue of your vehicle. Maybe due economy reasons your second alternator is not able to give you the full power. (also try it with lights switched on, this should disable the alternator from "going green".)

If no: The amount of amps is to much for your batteries and the BMS does not allow that much for charging them.

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Answer 2 · 2022-12-09T18:12:49Z

over-and-under-victron answered · Dec 09 2022 at 6:12 PM

I don't have an answer to your question but a different product suggestion.

Sterling has a new line of DC to DCs. One is rated to 200 amps and with the display you can derate to 65 and 85 percent. Could be a better match and simplify your wiring.

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Orion T Isolated 12/30 Charger - 3x parallel but not outputting 90 Amps - why not?

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